Has it got electric strip heat?

__________________
Jim

A side note on this chart. When comparing heating costs across energy sources be sure to add the electric portion of the furnace to the base fuel.

Electric base board heat is 100% effecient in converting energy to heat and does not have a fan to power. A forced air oil furnace has a 1/2 HP burner motor and a blower motor to move air around. The added electrical load for oil heat is significant.

As for the meter not being changed lately, that only matters for the spinning dial type. The SW on smart meters can be updated remotely as can readings be taken. Does the total reading on the meter match the total on the bill?

We still need an itemized break down for the 4 meter readings. Also look at actual Vs estimated readings as this can affect the bill.

Didn't look to close at this thread yet, but I am certain that for $200 a day plus expenses I can take care of this.

We had companies selling power here and you could chose who your supplier was for distribution costs I think it was. There were variable and fixed rate plans and usually the variable was very attractive. Well the variable rates spiked to some ungodly rate and peoples bills went much like you are talking here and maybe higher. PA public utility commission said it was all legal. Luckily it is only for 6-12 months. Was all over the local news.

To address your points......there are now only two meters being used. One for the lab/studio and the house meter.

Lab/studio meter is okay and not the problem.

Update: I spoke with one of the engineers at REC yesterday and I learnt the following....They are not smart meters, they are digital meters that report every midnight to REC. The meter has a digital readout but is not smart.

He also told me the meter reading has to be multiplied by 40.0000. ( Just 40 will do.) so on that information, I re read the house meter 24 hours later and it reads 280 Kwh, which is around $23.00 possibly making the month at that rate $620.00 !

So back in the house I find the utility room water heater flat out too! Seems the timer decided to jamb and run the elements constantly until the thermostat on the tank kicked them off. So I disconnected the Black wire to the elements.

I am taking my infra-red gun today to check the actual temperature in the house and look for any cool spots or heater air escape. Need to get into the atic to see if any duct is blowing outside as ceiling vents don't seem to blow a lot...wouldn't put a match out.

Engineer also said the historic use is not out of line across the area and her use is not flagged for investigation as a sudden increase in power reletive to the other customer base.

He said that electric furnaces is basically a short circuit of two 120vac supplies which is why is says '240vac' on the manufactures label. There is no Watts rating on it though.

He said normally the furnaces is around 20,000 to 45,000watts (?) in this part of the country.

I am off to see about the heated air distribution now and do a temperature check so I will update later.



.

__________________
[http://languageandgrammar.com/2008/01/14/youve-got-problems-not-issues/ ]

"A liberal is someone who feels they owe a great debt to their fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money."

Given the meter reports back every midnight, you might be able to get historical data or start having it saved. A smart meter can turn smart appliances off during peak hours, I'd expect a plain digital meter to be able to accept remote reprogramming.

You could turn everything off, use a known load for X time and compare it to the meter reading.

Given air flow is low at some outlets, if this is reduced flow is new, I vote for a flex duct that came off.

There has to be a watt rating on the furnace, possibly on the element rack it self if wattage is selectable.

Your 24 hr use average is 11,666 Watts per hour , that is 48 amps on 240 V , that is huge power as most incoming services are 100A with larger or all electric homes 200A.

From that show ( and Starsky and Hutch ) I learned:

Don't get hooked up with gangs / mob / drugs , you will never get out alive.

If you need information, go to the guy at the shoe shine stand.

Also, the late James Garner was an accomplished racing driver and could have turned pro. His driving skills came to light while an actor in the movie "Gran Prix"

Rockford Files!

__________________
-Evan


Benz Fleet:
1968 UNIMOG 404.114
1998 E300
2008 E63


Non-Benz Fleet:
1992 Aerostar
1993 MR2
2000 F250

I rechecked the meter at 1pm. Used 7, so x 40 = 280 Kwh's. $22.40 worth.Just the same as yesterday. Engineer said nothing apart from meter reading is to be x 40 to calculate Kwh's.

Infra-red gun shows 69 F at the thermostat and average around the house is 66 F near the floor to 70 at the ceiling. Outside temperature at the time was 22 F......Room 'stat reads temperature at 63 F and is set to 68 F. ( Mercury switch type 'stat.)

Furthest away heat outlet vent reads 91 F when heat running....93 closer to heater.

Found this estimate on Google: Pool Heater 12,000 watts on all day would consume approx' $25.00....but that's ALL day. This furnace is on/off cycle is 50%...so 12 hours. so I estimate about 25,000 watt element....am I right ?



.

__________________
[http://languageandgrammar.com/2008/01/14/youve-got-problems-not-issues/ ]

"A liberal is someone who feels they owe a great debt to their fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money."

Well that pool heater would be about 12 kilowatt hours per hour or 2.40 per hour in constant service with our local rates of about .20 cents per kilowatt hour. The furnace at a half duty cycle about the same over twenty four hours. . That furnace alone is about 4,300 kilowatts per month if your average remains as is. It is possibly it has a lesser kilowatt draw if your estimated cycle percentages are right. It will still get colder this winter though.

Devices that directly use electrical resistance heating as the only heat are pretty much washed up. At least in areas where electricity is expensive. There is a lot to be said for heat pumps now more than ever in many areas of Canada at least. Natural gas is good in some areas and has limited availability locally. Unfortunatly it is also overpriced around here.

I suspect this ladies electric resistance heating either has to go or the house needs a major work over or both. The house we are in is about thirty five years old and we are starting to upgrade it heating wise. It was fairly efficient thirty years ago but times change. The time of buying older houses locally that are more or less as they always where is over. Nobody wants them anymore with their high operating costs.

I am working on a house right now that is about 1200 square feet and is using 30kw per day or six dollars to stay at 70 degrees with resistance heating. I have not done the final installation on the heat pump yet but the resistance heating on that house will become just the backup when I do. It has been about freezing lately with the nights dropping off. Tonite for example is about zero F.

This particular house is very efficient but not in an unconventional way. In design I guesstimated heating for six of the cooler months around here should come in at about 400-500 total dollars per winter until the electrical rates go up further. Payback for the type of construction that enables this would be longer than I like. Except the increases in power costs that are going to come will shorten the period substantially.

In a way you may be flogging a dead horse with this lady. She in my opinion has to spend money to save more money. People resist this because it is all up front sometimes. Certainly she has water heater issues etc. Still the core issue is probably that electric resitance heating furnace. You might save a little by tuning the system up a little but basically it will remain the principal problem I suspect. As you help people with high electric bill issues all too often you find it is not defects. Or if so they are not signifigant. Unfortunatly they are just burning the energy in ways that are too inefficent for todays energy costs.

Using run time / usage is a round about way to calc furnace wattage. Looking at the element is a better choice.

Does this digital electric meter cycle through displays? Some I've seen cycle through total power used ( what your bill is based on ) , average power used , power being used now.

No. It has digital read out of use up to now, and then reverts to all digit segments on. So it reads -11605 and then 888888.

I have been reading up on attic ducting and heat/cooling losses due to duct leaks, non insulated tin ducting, register leaks, attic temperature and how electricity is only 30% efficient once you deduct coal, steam to power generation and then resistance heating.

She cannot afford internal ducting remodeling or alternative heating such as propane due to her not having any money to do so. Her husband died last year and so she went from $5000.00 a month to $1500.00. He also cancelled his life insurance 5 months before he died.

I think the next plan of attack is to inspect the attic space and see how well the ducting is laid out and/or insulated. The gov' web site says if the ducting is buried by at least 1.5 inches this makes a 24% decrease in power use.

They ran a study on Houston, Las Vegas and Phoenix(?) and Houston was the 24% home improvement with buried duct work in the attic as opposed to naked sheet metal ducting.

So depending on what I find tomorrow in the attic, I'll take it from there. I wish to thank you all for helping me get to terms with watts/Kwh etc and getting me motivated to look for improvements.

I'll tell you what I find and then we'll discus insulation materials and methods of application.......




.

__________________
[http://languageandgrammar.com/2008/01/14/youve-got-problems-not-issues/ ]

"A liberal is someone who feels they owe a great debt to their fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money."

Our meters have not gone really higher tech yet in our area of Nova Scotia. We do have a good off hours energy program you as a householder can access for three thousand dollars. I suspect this program might become unavailable at some time.

For those that have already brought in before that happens they will be left alone. Although the normal rate is about .20 a kilowatt hour with all taxes etc included. Off hours energy gives you it at about 9-10 cents per kilowatt hour.

This includes all forty eight hours in every weekend and each weekdays late evening and night. So large well insulated water heating tanks with off hours timers. Plus you can accumulate heat in the off hours and release it in the daytimes. The three thousand dollars includes a ceramic heater storage unit.

I feel people are very foolish not to grab on to this locally. If you do not have three K you can finance it on your power bill. Over three years your savings should pay for it and after that a substantially lower power bill will be with you. To me even just buying the package is free. The electric company goes to some lengths not to advertise it or it's availability as it was probably government mandated.

If you sell the house the package goes with the house. If they cancel new subscribers at some point and I think they will. Your house potentially could even have a higher resale value.

No or little money for improvements seems common enough. Sometimes an improvement is worth financing. Depending on winter temperatures 1.5 inches of duct insulation is a help but far from enough in my opinion. Any installation of attic ductwork without any insulation on them in that area would be insane.

Your losses would depend on the air velocity but they are going to be there to a substantial amount that could easily exceed twenty four percent on long runs. Think in terms of a lot more.

Is the house built on a slab with hot water pipes running through or under it it, or does it have a basement? If it's a slab, one of the hot water pipes running through the slab could have a small leak, allowing one of the water heaters to slowly drain and refill with cold water, which then needs to be reheated. Since the leaked water is hot, it represents a sizable energy loss. If there's no basement, then the leak will be invisible.

Turn off the h/w heater entirely for a day and see how much power is used.