VW and Audi Diesels Recall - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tjts1 · #46 09-21-2015, 03:51 PM

The German federal government has opened an investigation into the same matter. Since VW sells many times more TDIs in Europe than the US I expect the situation with the EPA be just the opening act to the main event. There is no way in hell this was isolated to the US market only.

MTI · #47 09-21-2015, 03:59 PM

The folks at Robert Bosch are saying . . . we supply the exhaust system stuff . . . Integration is VW's responsibility.

INSIDIOUS · #48 09-21-2015, 08:21 PM

OK, I waited until I cleaned out the local bone yards. Anybody else grab up the chips and puters & what not for 'retrofits' after recall 'upgrades'?

tjts1 · #49 09-21-2015, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS

OK, I waited until I cleaned out the local bone yards. Anybody else grab up the chips and puters & what not for 'retrofits' after recall 'upgrades'?

How many 09-15 TDIs in your local yards? You do realize that each ECU is coded to each body computer and key on these newer cars. If all 3 don't have a matching Vin, no start. Enjoy.

Mölyapina · #50 09-21-2015, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

How many 09-15 TDIs in your local yards? You do realize that each ECU is coded to each body computer and key on these newer cars. If all 3 don't have a matching Vin, no start. Enjoy.

If you think that INSIDIOUS is being serious, methinks you will have another think coming

.

barry12345 · #51 09-22-2015, 01:46 AM

I have given this some thought periodically all day. Volkswagon will probably try for the cheapest fix possible one way or another. What the customer is left with will probably not be resolved by legal actions.

Hopefully it will find acceptance but that too is far from certain. To get the existing cars into current compliance is their primary problem. This engine may also get into serious problems if operated emission compliant in its current design. They already have a serious freezing problem with their intercooler that puts ice into the engine I think.

Volkswagon can only hope then the car will get past any warranty period. There is for example talk of a simple re flashing of the computer. I think this has already been tried and failed.

Overall this is not a good scenario for owners of these cars. What if Volkswagon already knows they are not viably repairable to meet requirements?

All to become buybacks and resold in third world countries? The economics of that may be their best scenario. You either let them buy it back at prices they will establish or you scrap it or export it yourself?

The self preservation of their corporation is going to be their primary interest. Not owners of their cars or their past attitudes towards their customers would have been better.

They have survived some bad issues before. Nothing quite like this though. I even wonder if the corporation might file a chapter eleven equivalent. They may have no choice if all the European diesel models are plagued the same. Then owners then would be really stuck. Not the company as they have other brands they can thrive behind after post bankruptcy reorganization. They already own them. Because governments are all too aware of this some serious compromise is still possible in my mind.

I really think the government fines are the lesser parts of their dilemma perhaps. One can put any spin on it they want. They are a corrupt corporation. They had to know what they were doing and what the end results might be. The drive to be the number one manufacturer of cars in the world was too strong of an attraction perhaps to observe all ethics. Ironically both accountability and the desired sales position came together in the same year. Dealers with their trapped used and new inventory in Canada may have trouble sleeping now.

t walgamuth · #52 09-22-2015, 07:16 AM

I think the govt will work with VW and has no desire to put them out of business.

One thought of mine just popped in my head....perhaps VW has a simple solution that they did not want to do such as reducing performance in order to meet standards and can implement that easily if caught.

Seem like some sort of reflash or reprogram is the solution.

Basically in contradiction to my first stated thought, if it were easy they would have already done it.

tjts1 · #53 09-22-2015, 07:21 AM

So now VW is saying 11 million cars have the emissions test defeat software installed, the vast majority of which are outside the United States. This is going to get ugly.

tbomachines · #54 09-22-2015, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I think the govt will work with VW and has no desire to put them out of business.

One thought of mine just popped in my head....perhaps VW has a simple solution that they did not want to do such as reducing performance in order to meet standards and can implement that easily if caught.

Seem like some sort of reflash or reprogram is the solution.

Basically in contradiction to my first stated thought, if it were easy they would have already done it.

Obviously if they pass emissions with a specific ecu programming it is possible. It is likely at the cost of significant power and fuel mileage. Easy solution but then I imagine it comes down to consumer laws, where the product no longer functions as advertised. There's no real easy way out of it. I hope people start dumping them. Id be happy to have a switchable custom ecu flash between the nerfed version and a tune.

Sent from an abacus

kerry · #55 09-22-2015, 08:21 AM

Has anyone read a description of exactly what they were doing which increased emissions? I've seen a lot of articles on the subject but no detailed description of how the software was changing the operation of the engine. I know that the EGR reduces NOX emissions. Was the change as simple as shutting off the EGR valve? Or is it much more complex on the newer diesels? Once my 94 Landcruiser failed emissions on NOX levels. A vacuum control valve had failed. Since it was going to take a while to get the new valve, I put a BB in a vacuum line which kept the EGR on all the time. It passed emissions and I didn't notice any performance difference.

Angel · #56 09-22-2015, 09:33 AM

Understanding The 'Test Mode' That Let VW Trick The Emissions Test

Not sure if you follow jalopnik - they put this up yesterday IIRC. It doesn't go too much into detail (...it messes with the SCR function...) but gives a little insight.

-John

kerry · #57 09-22-2015, 10:01 AM

How does that Selective Catalytic Reduction system work? Anybody know? From what I read on the net, it refers mainly to urea injection but most of the engines in question did not have a urea system.

barry12345 · #58 09-22-2015, 10:07 AM

There is going to be a lot of conjecture. It was sad to hear the European versions of the tdis have issues as well. I originally was hoping not. The sales segment of the TDIs may be impacted for quite some time depending how the corporation handles this..

I do have compassion for people. I feel sad about the owners out there that have some anxieties currently about this. It is pretty much all up in the air currently and may remain so for some time.

The German government is going to be really upset with Volkswagon to put it mildly. It will make demands thankfully to fix the issue in a proper way. Perhaps having to even fund it for them as well.

There may be some panic selling off or troublesome disposal issues ahead by owners. Another issue is there are so many different countries governments demands to deal with by the company. Some governments may allow compromise situations and some may not.

I think institutional investors will dump the stock. They have a responsibility to their investors. This may present a real buying opportunity gamble. There is then the additional risk of the stock being displaced totally like the situation General Motors shareholders suffered.

Volkswagon is probably well aware that they may already be between a rock and a hard place.

Dealers have also a very serious situation to consider. Volkswagon besides all there other problems around this issue may have to fund them as well to keep them open. Sales of all Volkswagon products by dealers in most developed countries are going to pretty much dry up for awhile. Creating massive layoffs in their production facilities.

Nobody wants to see the Volkswagon brand gone. But if everything is added up there may be little choice in the matter. You may ultimately see millions of new higher quality Skodas produced on the same assembly lines.

There are possibly criminal charges going to be laid as well. There is no doubt that criminal negligence created this massive issue. Parts suppliers are going to need German government backing to assure payment. The best outcome is since the German government once owned Volkswagon they will basically do so again.

To avoid almost all of the listed senarios. I think the German government will act. They just cannot let the their current largest car producer in the world face destruction or very serious market damage.They will probably also act very fast. That is my personal hope. Otherwise the problems this issue has generated can destroy the company.

It is already past the just fix the cars and all will be well point with the company. Assurances by the German government that all issues will be properly dealt with are needed.

t walgamuth · #59 09-22-2015, 10:18 AM

Looks like a stock buying opportunity to me.

MTI · #60 09-22-2015, 10:45 AM

They are setting aside $7.2B to handle the claims.