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Old 12-08-2016, 11:15 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 497
Scammed into subscription service - NOT E.D. pills I promise

So I have a family member who is feeling rather ripped off from a website scam.

Could you guys give me an opinion on how to fight this?

So unnamed family member buys a "cosmetic" product from an ad they saw on a website. Unfortunately, there's not enough experience for the words "free trial" to arise any suspicion. There is zero mention of a subscription plan anywhere visible, just a product presentation and checkout. Free trial just pay shipping. They go for it, 2 days later they get a sample.

14 days go by and another package shows up. Of course look at bank account and of course, money is missing.

Go to Chase to report it. They then call the vendor and ask if they are legit. Vendor say, yea yea they ain't no thieves, and 3 weeks later, claim is denied.

The claim is denied on the basis that they have a website that clearly states cancel within 14 days otherwise subscribe. However, the short version of the page that the ad goes to has no mention of the subscription. They have 2 different check out pages.

It's like having checkout 2 at the grocery store assume that you want to buy the same thing every week, and they'll even deliver it too! Surprise!

How is this an acceptable loophole to become visa verified and why haven't the banks figured out this scam yet?

Here's the link

Send them poop.

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Old 12-09-2016, 06:35 AM
jplinville's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dayton, Ohio region
Posts: 302
It's shady, but it's not a scam. Go to the bottom of the page and click on the "Terms" link. In that link, you'll see...
Auto-Ship Policy - Trial Policy

You must pay a shipping and processing fee of $5.99 for us to send you a full 30 day supply of Skin Refresh. We ship the product the day after you place your order (except that orders placed Saturday-Sunday will be shipped the following Monday). You will have 14 days from your original order date to see if Skin Refresh is right for you. If you are unhappy with the product at any time during those 14 days, you must call us at 1 (888) 874-6624 and cancel your order to avoid being billed for the full cost of the product. If you are satisfied with our product, then do nothing-we will bill you $92.99 for your initial order, and every thirty days thereafter your initial order we will send you a new 30-day supply of our product, and automatically bill you the low price of $92.99 + shipping of $5.99. To cancel automatic delivery and billing, call us at 1 (888) 874-6624 or email us during normal business hours: Mon - Fri 9am - 6pm PST. Please read our terms and conditions for more details.
They have the legal disclaimer needed to show that this isn't a just have to find the link to the terms to find it, but it's there.
1987 560SL
85,000 miles

Meet on the level, leave on the square. Great words to live by

Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread. - Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821.
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Old 12-09-2016, 07:00 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 497
What about a lack of "I agree with terms and conditions" checkbox?

And in that case what prevents them from saying, in 14 days, we'll own all your belongings and you've signed up to 5 years of slavery?

Where's the line between acceptable and ludicrous?
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Old 12-09-2016, 09:00 PM
jplinville's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dayton, Ohio region
Posts: 302
When you complete an order, you have agreed with their terms and conditions.

From their Terms link...


By placing an order through this website, you agree to the terms and conditions set for the below. Please read through these terms carefully before placing your order and print a copy for future reference. Please also read our Privacy Policy regarding personal information provided by you, which is incorporated herein by reference.
Word of caution...if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. ALWAYS look for terms and conditions before submitting the order, so that this doesn't come as a surprise.

Like I said, shady...but not a scam.
1987 560SL
85,000 miles

Meet on the level, leave on the square. Great words to live by

Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread. - Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821.
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Old 12-09-2016, 09:12 PM
dkveuro's Avatar
Sword of Damocles
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Here an' there.
Posts: 2,548
Didn't check "Auto Ship" did they ?

[ ]

"A liberal is someone who feels they owe a great debt to their fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money."
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Old 12-09-2016, 09:27 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,915
This is a deceptive ad, without a doubt. The conditions are clear if you read the terms, and acceptance is implicit when you give them the card. But there is really nothing that requires you to at least click through the terms. One sure sign that it's a scam is that the website registrant for has been anonymized through whoisguard:

WHOIS Lookup - Domain Whois Search, Availability, and Information | eNom

Whoisguard is a company out of Panama that makes a business out of hiding the true registration information for a website. What this means is that you have no means to identify the true owner of the website. No name, address, phone number, or e-mail address. So no way to deliver legal service. You don't see this with legit sites.

First thing I'd do is cancel the service, so that it doesn't get any worse.

Then go back to Chase. The truth is that bankers aren't paid to handle complaints. So it's tough to find a banker who will really fight for you. I'd try the branch manager rather than a banker. Be stubborn and hard to convince, make them take all possible escalations. Print out screenshots of the site and the whois info from the above url and show them that the disclaimer is obscure and the ownership is anonymous. In the end, the bank may simply be unable to fix it. But believe me, you haven't yet exhausted the possibilities at the bank.

The other thing I would do is file a complaint with my state attorney general. Print out everything and attach it to your letter. Most AG's will go after this sort of scam.

Most important: learn from the experience.
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Old 12-09-2016, 10:23 PM
Palangi's Avatar
L' Résistance
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Republique de Banana
Posts: 3,496
Get the bank to change the account number. Let the rat bastards bill the old number to their hearts content.

2004 C240 Wagon 203.261 Baby Benz
2008 ML320 CDI Highway Cruiser
2006 Toyota Prius, Saving the Planet @ 48 mpg
2000 F-150, Destroying the Planet @ 20 mpg

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Old 12-09-2016, 11:26 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 497
I spent about 30 min on the phone with Chase customer support. They were unwilling to do anything to reopen the claim. They weren't even willing to look at the website and see how shady it is. I'm surprised at their lack of commitment to maintain customer satisfaction.

There will be a package put together and sent to the AG as suggested. It makes sense to escalate it to that level.

Thanks everyone for the advice.
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Old 12-16-2016, 10:47 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 185
Cancel the credit card.
2002 E320 4-Matic
2008 Subaru Outback
2009 Subaru Forester
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:07 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,919
Was not a stand up transaction unfortunately.. Wrong pills.

Just be thankful that you were not really burnt too bad financially. We all get nailed somehow from time to time. It seems unavoidable.

It is going to happen so we just have to take it as part of the right of passage. You cannot catch everything. Not that I like it any better than the next guy.

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