In some languages the noun is a specific gender and the definite article must Mach the gender of the noun. El toro = the bull; La tienda = the store. Etc. notice that in English the definite article is neutral.

I have a few very long term friends of fifty years or more who use the definite article in English. Intelligent men, one of whom has lived and worked in several countries. They are not ignorant but do not have formal education beyond high school and maintain strong family and social bonds that go back generations (I'm a tolerated foreigner to them in our shared country). I should add they are all WASPs.

My question is this: is this a local phenomenon unique to this group?

H.S. Latin recollection: Most/all Latin (Roman?) nouns were gendered, and instead of an article, they changed the suffix of the word, "-a" was a common female suffix, "-us" was a common male designator ('Fenestra' = window = female, 'gladius' = Sword = male)

not sure if this helps.

-Johnus

__________________
2009 Kia Sedona
2009 Honda Odyssey EX-L
12006 Jetta Pumpe Duse
(insert Mercedes here)

Husband, Father, sometimes friend =)

Confused. Did you mean to say "...friends...who do not use the definite article in English." ?

it's called Zero Marking, if I remember Linguistics correctly.

__________________
You're a daisy if you do.
__________________________________
84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

Probably should've look-up terminology because I messed it up.

I shouldn't have said the article, it remains indefinite. Blame lack of caffeination.

These guys (and one woman) use a masculine pronoun (almost never feminine) in reference to an object.

"That shovel is in the shed. He's up against the left wall."

You may find it interesting to note Francis P Dinneen's book on the subject, which shows that the attempt to match gender and nouns is something that was done as a mnemonic device to help foreigners, especially Greeks, who were learning Latin, when it was the common commercial language of the world. I enjoyed studying under him in grad school at Georgetown. He is now deceased.


BTW there are three genders in Latin and you have to be careful when you make statements about endings signaling gender. there are plenty of exceptions to every rule in Latin/Romance languages and in Germanic ones.


Latin has five declensions or classes of nouns and nominatives. In one declension an ending can be " masculine" in another "neuter." The classification system was just a way to help learning, it isn't really indicative of the grammatical structure of the language. Actually, the morphology of the language if you want to be technical.

__________________
Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

ah yes. Latin. I can still recite the pledge of Allegiance in Latin. Guess 3 years of it paid off.

__________________
1984 300SD Orient Red/ Palomino
1989 560SEC
2016 Mazda 6 6 speed manual
1995 Ford F-150 reg cab 4.9 5speed manual

I regret not taking Latin. It was offered in my high school.

In this example could it be an accent that is throwing things off? Where 'It is' can sound a lot like 'He's' ('Eezz' sounding)??

__________________
1985 300D
The rest:
1957 MGA (comatose)
1965 Falcon (sleeping)
1966 E-100 (rust test in progress)
1976 Ford 3400 D Tractor (workhorse)
1978 Mercury Zephyer (5L playtoy)
1995 Isuzu NPR D (fetcher)
1998 Subaru Legacy (Spare)
2000 Toyota Sienna (School bus)
2008 Toyota Prius (Commuter)

I think part of this is a form of humor. People who learn English as a second language make jokes of this form. My grandfather's father was an immigrant and my grandfather still made jokes like "more better". I, myself slaughter the language for fun.

When I was young there were very strong regional dialects. Modern communications have homogenized things greatly.

I think part of this is a form of humor. People who learn English as a second language make jokes of this form. My grandfather's father was an immigrant and my grandfather still made jokes like "more better". I, myself, slaughter the language for fun.

When I was young there were very strong regional dialects. Modern communications have homogenized things greatly.

I grew-up with the accent (Louisiana piney woods rather than acadiens). No, it's plain.

Nope, not meant in humor. That's the way they talk. I just found it odd and very consistent. There are lots of other idiomatic structures and terms. This one just got my attention more. I have not heard it consistently used except in some native romance language speakers using pidgin English. These are native English speakers with Scottish or English surnames. Borderlands area, as I think about it. To explain, I read a book entitled, "Steel Bonnets" some years ago that included a list of common surnames of the region.

Amo. Amas. Amat....
The verb "love" was it?

Jesuit training on I St. DC: 4 years of Latin and two of either Greek or French.
Family moved away after two years.

Anyone who studied Latin knows this:
"Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres"

Close resemblance to English. Not hard to figure out.

Spanish: esposa = wife, esposas = handcuffs

__________________
"I applaud your elaborate system of denial"

"Chicken is divided in three parts"?