Mercedes-Benz is ranked behind Chevy, Cadillac, and Buick - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

robbyd · #1 06-01-2002, 01:01 PM

I saw this in USA Today. It is the latest J.D. Power and Associates 2002 quality rankings. It is based on problems per 100 vehicles during the first 90 days of ownership. Number one, once again is Lexus, followed by Acura and Infiniti. BMW is 7th, Volvo is 5th. My question is why Mercedes is all the way down at 13th, just one spot ahead of Chrysler. This really is bothering me, because I cannot figure it out. Maybe you all can help me a bit.

Robert

#2 06-01-2002, 01:47 PM

Yeah, remember that is for the first 90 days of ownership, bro.

In 10 years...let's think about a few things.

If the Caddy has a Northstar V-8, it will be about done for, thanks to the block wearing out around 100K miles (widely documented on internet)

Lexus parts are often horrifically expensive, and their 32-valve 4.0 liter V8 needs to be pulled when it needs timing change. Think of doing this at dealer labor rates.

BMWs drive great, but a 10-year-old Bimmer will have a few electrical glitches, and the automatic trans tends to have a durability cycle of about 120K miles.

Chevrolet....who cares? In 10 years, a Chevy will be rusting away in the weeds in a shady neighborhood vacant lot somewhere, or be languishing at a used-car dealer lot, holding about 5% of its original sale price as value.

Infiniti...want to find out about them? Search for a Q45 owner's board, I know there is one as a Yahoo community. In all fairness, the G20 is a pretty reliable little car though.

-Sam

engatwork · #3 06-01-2002, 01:52 PM

It would be interesting to spin the clock back to 1981 and see where the W123's were then compared to where they are now versus the competition

.
I will say that in this part of the country you still see quite a few early 80's Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans driving around that still look decent.

#4 06-01-2002, 01:59 PM

Come to think of it, in 1981, a 300 Turbodiesel would have been a good deal faster than a lot of those aforementioned Hondas and Toyotas, probably a good deal of domestic cars, too.

0-60 in 12 seconds and a top speed of 110 mph is on par with my old gasoline-powered Saab 900, with a 2.0 liter four, 110 hp, and a five-speed manual, which was a midrange luxury import.

I wonder if W123s had many "initial problems" back then? Of course, they were much simpler than most modern cars.

-Sam

Ali Al-Chalabi · #5 06-01-2002, 02:47 PM

These things are based on the first 90 days of ownership, during which all repairs will be made for free under warranty. This is a very convenient way for JD Power & Associates to rank cars because it does not have anything to do with durability and does not take into account long-term build quality. Who cares if there is a minor electrical issue that will be fixed fo free by the dealer a few weeks after I buy a car?

The reason I drive a Mercedes among other things is that I know it is going to be mechanically sound 10 years down the road. Unfortunately, it seems that very, very few customers of brand new Mercedes have this in mind when they decide to lease a car for three years and dump it for a new one. Enter the era of 12k mile oil changes and the lifetime tranny fill...

#6 06-01-2002, 03:54 PM

It would be great to believe that modern MB will still be sound & troublefree 10 years on.Sadly thats simply a dream.

jay123 · #7 06-01-2002, 04:17 PM

No car is trouble free for 10 years. You will always have to change the:
alternator, starter, water pump, O2 sensor, etc... or some other thing before a 48 month period on any vehicle. All things have a shelf-life.
The thing to keep in mind is how often do these things have to be changed, and how much will they cost you compared to the over-all value of the vehicle.
If you want cheap transportation, buy an air-cooled Bug or a Hyundai with a 100,000k/10 year warrantee. I'll blow you by with my 190E 2.6 or my 87 300SDL. And I'll look good doing it in the comfort of my leather seats and while listening to my stereo CD sound.
Food For Thought....

suginami · #8 06-01-2002, 04:26 PM

I read the same article in the USA Today newspaper in the hotel yesterday.

If you had read the whole article, you would have noticed that the article also mentioned that the first 90 days of ownership says nothing about the long term quality and durability of the cars.

It further went on to say that the ranking of cars after 5 years was completely different of that in the first 90 days. And up to the five year point, they mentioned that the "quality" problems were dead batteries, brake pad changes, etc. People like us on this board who keep up our cars and maintain them over the long haul, wouldn't call these issues "quality" problems, but rather regular maintenance items. Weird, huh?

I wish I would've kept the article, but the hotel cleaning staff had already thrown it away when they cleaned my room.

I forgot where Mercedes ranked after 5 years, but it was in the top ten.

I remember thinking after reading the article why J.D. Power and Associates only rates cars up to five years. Why don't they go back and report after 10 or even 15 years...

#9 06-01-2002, 04:40 PM

Sounds about right. You get people who don't know what the they are doing playing with componets on new MBs and go back to the dealer. Off topic here but What ever happened to Michliens on MB's?

suginami · #10 06-01-2002, 07:08 PM

I've really got to find that article.

I just recalled another criticism of JD's methodology that the writer of the article pointed out.

It seems that last year, Nissan and Buick(or Cadillac, I don't remember) had scores that were very close to each other. It was just a couple of points, but the difference was within the statistical margin of error, so their ranking should've been a tie, but JD still ranked Nissan as higher.

Now what does that tell you about JD's bias?

SHYNE · #11 06-01-2002, 07:34 PM

Those nob gobblers have no credibility. Look how low Volkswagen scored, and everyone knows their build quality now is second to none. It appears they didn't want to write JD Power and "Associates" a cheque like GM and Toyota did.

Mike McKinney

#12 06-01-2002, 08:06 PM

VW does not have all of their issues solved by far. There are still quite a few complaints regarding the window regulators used in the power window equipped cars. I have read a handful of complaints regarding electrical systems. Their power window issue is one that is extremely well documented for frequent repetitive failures.

That said, I would still buy a VW product, and plan to in the near future. I can easily spec out the power window issues by staying in the base model cars. They HAVE come a long way since the days of the Rabbit, with overall fit and finish second to none, and the only automaker with the cajones to sell a diesel car in a market starved for such a product.

ehmand · #13 06-01-2002, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by w126

Ohhhh! 700 posts! Do I get a cookie!

Only of you have cookies enabled! ;-)))

#14 06-01-2002, 09:07 PM

Hey I want a cookie to or a free dinner when I hit 2,000 J/k

elau · #15 06-02-2002, 12:25 AM

OK guys, this is the deal. So what if MB lags behind Chevy and the lots. See who has to wait in line just to get a vehicle. I have never heard of waiting a year and a half for a Chevy or Toyota even if you have $90K burning in your pocket (the new SL). Go to CNN.com and you will read another article about standing in line for the new E class. If everything is so bad with MB, why people still flocking to the three pointed star?

All analysts, including JD Powers, will write up anything as long as you grease their palm.