We do not have kids to worry about but we have assets and we want to set up MPOA's just in case something goes sideways.

I have not started to look into this yet but I have looked at the legal zoom page ($150) for will, MPOA's living will/trust ...etc. Is this a good way to go? Do I need a lawyer (hate the idea of spending for a lawyer if not needed). Can you just down load a generic doc and fill it out?

Any suggestions?

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Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
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- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

You can give as much as you want to charities now. You can give up to $14,500 per year to whoever you want, and they do not have to pay taxes on it.
Do it now, so you can see and enjoy the benefits or joy the recipients get when they use it. I even considered borrowing against equity to do the same. That borrowed money can be given away same as earned money.

You can find all sorts of things on internet sites. I would still suggest that an in-state lawyer review it. Reviewing a document costs less than creating one.

The best bet is to do it with an attorney. For a number of reasons.

1) Your state may not allow a will prepared by a non-attorney to be notarized or officially witnessed (NY doesn't, in fact, it's a misdemeanor). This is because many people who prepare their own wills would regret the results if they could live to see them.

2) You'll need someplace to store the will, the lawyer's office is the best place. A safe deposit box is the worst possible place, since it may be sealed on the death until a court appointed executor opens it. Which would make your will inaccessible, which means your chosen executor may not end up actually being your executor.

3) There may be more complications in your situation than you think.

4) Software is often outdated or flat out wrong, and you don't want a mistake here. You may think a will is a simple thing, but spare your heirs surprises.

5) If you think you need a trust, you really need an attorney. Any fool can set up a trust, as long as outcomes don't matter.

6) The lawyer can attest to your state of mind.

The downside, a lawyer will likely charge a hefty fee.

OTH, review your assets. Most people will end up with almost all of their assets either in retirement accounts, insurance, or real estate. The first two won't be subject to probate if the beneficiaries are set up properly. Be sure to name contingent beneficiaries as well as primaries. The last can be set up with a trust, or simply by gifting ownership now. If you're going to leave real estate to a charity, the charity can likely do the heavy lifting of preparing the trust docs, you would only need to get a lawyer to review. Check with your state and see what the dollar limit is for a simple estate, which can be settled without full probate. The number will seem low, I think it's around $18K in NY, but again, most people's net worth is in the buckets I described and will have only a little free cash and personal property. If you have more cash than would qualify, a Totten trust (bank account with the title "yourname, in trust for soandso" may suffice, depending on state law.

I see at least some lawyer involvement as money well spent. Otherwise some technical self inflicted error could tie things up. Costing far more in the long run. Or you might include something he finds that it is unwise to do.

I suspect a court would also give a better ruling in your favor if something was messed up. Less likely to happen with a lawyer involved.

Sometimes it is just not the best ideal to totally reduce a cost. You also then have someone impartial that can attest. That you were not out of your mind at the time the document or documents where prepared.

Just my two cents worth. For what that is worth today. You are also describing a potential complex situation perhaps as well. Perhaps not.

Subscribed .

I hope there are more discussions on trusts, I'd like to set some up for my grand kids but my son is horrified at the thought of me dying and flat refuses to discuss it .

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-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

Nobody ever claimed that reality was easy. Even just the concept of it is very hard for many people. The current age of your son may play into this as a large factor.

Remember the human remains immortal in their own minds for a large portion of their lives. It is probably best this is the way it is. Leaving their demise as a total abstract issue to them.

I am certain your son does not want to see you gone. It just might be too much potential conceptual reality at this point for him to process.

I like trusts for grandchildren. There is usually a period of time before they are accessable by them. This allows a chance of some adversary or increases the likelihood of some. I have come to understand some is better for individuals growing up rather than none. I do not want to attempt to quantify it but for healthy average minds I think it is a benefit. We only really learn through some stress involvement.

A recent survey I have no faith in. Is indicating too high a percentage of the younger people cannot easily deal with a burnt out light bulb situation. So to me some effort should be made to instill some self confidence in grandchildren by grand parents. This to me is giving a signifigant inheritance alone.

When considering inheritance or trusts. The assets we acquired in most cases did not come that easy. Especially in the early days. This taught us things that the grandchildren of today just have not experienced. So easy come easy go is a strong probability. Forced guidance into buying a house by them. Will ultimately be a better scenario. Than them just blowing it away. I taught our daughters about real estate and many things at the supper table. It seems to have worked and gave them a head start. I always thought these things should have been taught in schools. They in general are still not.

I think intellectually these young people today could change a light bulb. Yet the lack of any self confidence stops them. Anyways that survey disturbed me. As I have observed far too many young peoples functional areas. Are not where they should be.

This has been evolving for a long time. Someone calling a plumber to change a washer always disturbed me in my time. Plus doing many other simple things in reality. Other than if you do not have the tine. Nobody has come totally to grips with the offsetting effect of social media on the young. Even if they look up some procedure on other on the web. Without the self confidence and ability to jump the gap to application. It is useless to them.

Our youngest daughter married a guy that had no self confidence at doing things. Certainly he worked but he was always basically behind the curve. It has taken me almost ten years to get him going. My reasoning was as he aged with his lack of abilities and in demand skills. He probably would find himself excluded from the future job market. It was painful for me but at the same time it was a form of inheritance to them.

It really depends on the state.
In Michigan, I can write a will in pen, and if I include certain phrases, it basically can't be contested unless I commit a crime, i.e., give money to someone that I hire to murder a third party.
Never store a will in a safety deposit box.


Find out if you can register your notarized will at the county courthouse.

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Strelnik
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I'm going through one h*ll of a mess involving my family's estate right now. Almost all of the problems revolve around a so-called "living trust". Dad paid a group of lawyers around $2500 to set it up.

The law firm that set it up failed to supply a user guide to the trustee to assist the trustee in knowing how to SUCCESSFULLY operate the trust. They also failed to provide my father with a user guide in the proper use of the trust. They never scheduled a meeting with the heirs to discuss the inner workings of the trust when it was initially set up.

I have been told that many so-called "living trusts" are never activated. In other words, the grantor never places or deeds property INTO the trust. For this reason alone, a high percentage of these so-called "living trusts" F-A-I-L.

The current trustee has NO prior experience working with ANY kind of trust and believe me, his inexperience SHOWS. As a result, we are dealing with a full scale run away TRAIN as of present.

There are stories circulating around concerning lawyers who were appointed executors of estates who ended up owning EVERYTHING.

There is a reason lawers are known as "snakes".

" Nobody ever claimed that reality was easy. Even just the concept of it is very hard for many people. The current age of your son may play into this as a large factor. "

I'm sure this is the core issue .

It's odd though because I'm supposed to have died several times over already and some how what's left of me is still here, ever slower but still going .

My son is a journeyman mechanic, racer (two & four wheel, mostly off pavement) and an enthusiastic 4X4 off roader, he takes his entire family along including the baby, he's seen enough death and mayhem to clearly grasp the concept of me not coming home one day .

When I was in high school long ago they had 'Home Economics' and my then girlfriend suggested I take it, I didn't and now think it should be a mandatory subject, no one taught me the basics of running a household, nor how to balance a checkbook etc. and since I've lived on my own since I was 14 years old, the learning curve was steep and I made every possible mistake I think but as mentioned, doing things and learning how to handle life is very rewarding, not scary .

I really want to set up living trusts for my assets so my grand children will be protected if my next Moto collision is my exit but as h.m. mentions, not doing it correctly can create a nightmare .

__________________
-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

I was a partial beneficiary in a trust, set up back in the 40's. Two of the beneficaries were instututions, and when it was time to wind up the trust they had a go at taking it all, as everyone else was nth generations from the original inheritors. There was a clause about anyone contesting got nothing, which I pointed out to the bank that administerd the trust. The institutions STFU and it worked out, but it almost didnt.

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Housework is about the most miserable repedative non rewarding type of thing that I can think of. What the majority of our wives bear and not complain about constantly is remarkable to me. I gave it some thought years ago. The possible conclusion was the home is their empire. That may also be the reason two women do not coexist that well usually in the same one. They are territorial goes without saying.

The long held concept that the home is our castle may be flawed. I have never tested this and would be reluctant to try. Your castle you clean it comes to mind instantly.

When the kids where young the wives probably put in 10-12 hours seven days a week. Still today my wife at 72 is both very busy and still catches the vast majority of the housework. Fortunately the wife has a very good sense of humor. Still as Clintwood one stated in a movie. A man has to know his limits.

About the only thing I can do is make certain to support she gets to do what she wants. She once told me that it is too bad I did not just space floorboards in the cottage so the sand and dirt could just drop through.

I admit unlike some of the son in laws. I do not pitch in with housework as much as I should. somehow managing to live with the guilt. How bad is this domestic household maintenance for the wife?

She still brings it up periodically that of all the dishwashers we have had. The last one purchased about eight months ago still gets her mention. As being far, far better than what has gone before. It apparently cleans everything spotless all the time. The run cycle is three to four hours though. It is also very quiet. This has a lot of underlying signifigance to me. A happy wife does require some sensitivity and interpretation on our parts.

Something like making sense out of tea leaves. I watch far too many of our friends drop the ball. One guy asking his wife at a large gathering at our home. Why can you not cook like his wife does was a memorial classic.

I new by intuition that remark was going to cost him. I noticed the other woman in the room swivel their heads. It was like observing a wrongful remark at a mafia meeting. The wife has an exceptional skill cooking and preparing meals and all those other women know it. I make a point of mentioning this to her frequently myself.

Besides all these other commercial points we accumulate. Brownie points can benefit us the most. They only require sincerity on our part. If I ever needed a radar detector in a car I was driving. The wife could suffice.

Nostalgia for me was your mention of balancing a cheque book. I skim over statements that come in the mail today is pretty much it. Just looking for anything abnormal. I very seldom write cheques anymore nor the wife in comparison to yesteryear. Although for many they would still be better off if they were more connected to their spending of money.

I do not care how I spend money. The earlier trait of stretching the dollar remains. As senseless as it seems at times. It meant something that I got five brand new six panel interior doors for twenty five dollars with one being solid core about a week ago. Yet at the same time I thought what does it really matter anymore?

It is only remotely at best relevant to this thread. I purchased a new toilet as a replacement yesterday . I noticed a couple of models had sensors. Thinking I am not even going to investigate what function they could perform. I seem to have mastered the old toilets well enough. I did not even want to investigate. Even with my remaining naturally strong sense of curiosity. Their are limits.

All good points .

All people are different, learning this and how to roll with it makes or breaks a marriage or long term relationship, many never quite grasp this simple concept and suffer because of it .

I agree, houseworks are a bitcvh to say the least, some people, men as well as women, get great satisfaction out of neat as a pin, I just don't like any food debris whatsoever and tend to clean the dishes as I go along .

I'm a lousy cook so I happliy wash any thing SWMBO gets dirty, she's 76 now, very active and is fine with this .

My take : you don't do hot oil & filter changes etc., I don't swing a mop in the home although I do make the usual home repairs on an ongoing basis, plumb toilets, replace leaky washers, bulbs, light switches and so on .

Some women don't like to be treated well, they'll steamroller any man who's too nice to them .

We take in teenage Foster boys and for the most part they're woefully behind in knowing how to do anything ~ some years back we got one who didn't understand toilet paper .

It looks like our newest Foster boy is not going to make it .

__________________
-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

Thanks for asking this question, David. It’s on my mind, too.

Ive used legalzoom for an llc and beware of their hidden costs and fees...think airline tickets, rental cars, concert tickets, etc. In the case of an llc, there are also auto-opt-in renewals, but would guess not an issue for a will. I'd rather see a well regarded estate lawyer or something than saving a few bucks.

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TC
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