Mercedes Sprinter camper conversions - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

duxthe1 · #16 07-23-2020, 01:48 AM

I work on quite a few Sprinter camper "conversions". It baffles me why anyone would want to deal with Mercedes parts and repair prices / availability for the esteemed opportunity to live in somebody's neglected clapped out work van.

Motorhomes built out by reputable outfits tend to be well cared for. Given what they cost, that makes perfect sense. Campers half assed built on 200K retired work vans tend to be a rolling amalgamation of never ending expensive problems. Yet there is currently no shortage of people delusional enough to think a buildout on a X00k van without so much as a pre-purchase inspection is living the dream.

cmac2012 · #17 07-23-2020, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

The 'camper' world intrigues me, but not in a good way.
If you are young, can earn a living from the internets - go ahead, have a good time...

...I have yet to find anyone raising children in a 'vanlife' or a 'tiny house'.

I always thought that as we (generally) got older, the more we wanted a stationary place to rest, free from drama, maybe with room to pursue hobbies.
I understand that not everyone is like this, and living with no mortage payment (do you have $90k in case for a Travata ?) has appeal, but Ive always seen the 'vanlife' scene as a 'youthful idealist' market only.

that being said - perhaps the answer is for you (cmac) to create just one - how fast does it sell ? do you have inside(?) shop space and tools to make it work ? most importantly - do you like making Vanlifes more than you enjoy your current vocation ? only by making one can you tell.

-Boring Suburban Dad

There's a lot of unknowns all right. I don't get the impression that anyone is looking to raise their family in one of these. Some are going for nosebleed prices, I've read of some at nearly $300k - you supply the vehicle. Not sure what they're getting that would pull that sort of price, would be interesting to know. Picking brains on this stuff might be tough. My guess would be mega solar panels, tricked out electronics, hi-fi, classy finishs, upholstery.

I rent (and live) in a warehouse/office combo unit, I could fit one in the garage side but I have much room to park in front, you can't see my parking area from the street, would problaby just work on it outside - all my tools are right there. Probably wouldn't be my only work.

The impression I'm getting is that people of means are buying these for travel and adventure because, like Tom mentions, flying seems risky, not to mention staying in motels. A way for some independent, semi risk free seeing of the world, or hemisphere anyway.

So far it's looking like the average units, including vehicle are about $80 to $100K. I'm finding suitable used Sprinters for $35K.

I have read about restrictions on putting a house into a school bus for example. Not like the old days. That calls for some research. As for why not an RV, these will often get 20+ mpg. The large RVs what, 4 or 5 mpg? Seat of the pants figuring, over 100k miles that could be $40k less in fuel costs. And a lot easier to park and maneuver the whole time.

cmac2012 · #18 07-23-2020, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duxthe1

I work on quite a few Sprinter camper "conversions". It baffles me why anyone would want to deal with Mercedes parts and repair prices / availability for the esteemed opportunity to live in somebody's neglected clapped out work van.

Motorhomes built out by reputable outfits tend to be well cared for. Given what they cost, that makes perfect sense. Campers half assed built on 200K retired work vans tend to be a rolling amalgamation of never ending expensive problems. Yet there is currently no shortage of people delusional enough to think a buildout on a X00k van without so much as a pre-purchase inspection is living the dream.

I think I'd keep it to way less than 200K. Here's one that looks promising - 91K.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ctd/7162782765.html

cmac2012 · #19 07-23-2020, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merc lover

If I have learned anything in this life it is this; there is a vast difference between a "business" and a "hobby" and a "hobby business". I've seen many a good man or woman start something because they were passionate about the product/service. After a short period of time, it became apparent they were more into a hobby rather than a business.

Nothing wrong with a hobby just as long as you realize you likely won't make the serious $$$$ you thought you would make.

The big time Mercedes Sprinter RV people have invested thousands and thousands of dollars into tooling plus training for their workers. It isn't impossible to succeed but let's just say it might be difficult acquiring the necessary resources, i.e. money, tooling, trained workers, factory, etc. to compete with those guys.

That is a good point. Having your templates well designed and ready to punch out, all the equipment, a trained work force, all of that goes a long ways. Trying to be the hand made artisan up against that crowd could be tough. People aren't paying for unique works of art.

t walgamuth · #20 07-23-2020, 07:27 AM

A smaller unit is easier to drive and can be parked on the street up to about 25' in length. I have owned large trailers and they are intimidating to get around without running over things and under things that are too low. The 30' I have now is a bit bigger than I would prefer.

jcyuhn · #21 07-23-2020, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merc lover

I've always wondered if you can get your Mercedes Sprinter serviced at the dealership if you purchase an RV based on the Mercedes Sprinter chassis. Does anyone know? Would it be serviced under warranty?

Yes, absolutely. I own a Leisure Travel Van Unity motorhome built on a 2019 Sprinter cutaway chassis. I have it serviced and recalls addressed at my local dealer - MB of Boerne, Texas (they are great). Do note the dealer must be a Sprinter dealer - not all MB automobile dealers are also Sprinter dealers.

t walgamuth · #22 07-23-2020, 11:28 AM

Cool!

Angel · #23 07-23-2020, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

There's a lot of unknowns all right. I don't get the impression that anyone is looking to raise their family in one of these.

...

I rent (and live) in a warehouse/office combo unit, I could fit one in the garage side but I have much room to park in front, you can't see my parking area from the street, would problaby just work on it outside - all my tools are right there. Probably wouldn't be my only work.

...
.

Agreed on all points - I mention the family/children thing because I envision a lot of young couples buying a #vanlife and then selling it 3 years later when her belly is getting round...

I tent camp at state parks a fair amount, and talk to camper owners every chance I get- part of me wants one. However:
-Mechanical issues specific to campers
-dealers don't want to do warranty work
-people with larger campers get the runaround: "Oh, we cant fix that, that issue is with the truck chassis, you need to tow your camper (lols) to a truck repair shop"
-comparatively-horrific new-camper warranties.
-Cheap camper construction (roof leaks = common, thin walls, small rivets and stapled wood bracing)
-I guess you can finance a camper for 20 years (its not a car, its a home??) -

all of these add up to a world that looks ugly to me...
...except, I suppose, when you are sitting on a couch, in the AC, looking out a picture window at the campfire outside cooking a dutch oven meal (are we allowed to call it that anymore?), after a beautiful hike through an untouched natural area.

What little work Ive done on vehicle interiors is this: - you *really* want the vehicle inside if you can. This lets you leave the thing open/unlocked overnight (wires hanging out the door), work when its raining, no staring into a blinding sun, the ground under the vehicle is clean and smooth. Many campers have 'exterior accesories' (top mounted HVAC units, awnings, rear ladders/storage) and just being able to have one leg in and one leg out of the vehicle while working - having an indoor space to work would be high on my list.

All that being said, there clearly IS a market for high-er end custom vehicles.

Some more thoughts - for discussion - my biases should be pretty clear above, and with it my lack of real-world experience...

1) I see a manuf. called "Dometic" all over the place, I think they make HVAC and Refrigerator freezers? def. try to buy that off the shelf(?) if possible. propane-powered reefers are a thing in the camper community.

2) Decide early if you want:
2a) Propane - tanks and hoses
2b) Onboard generator, and 120v wiring throughout
2b1) if so, what gets 12v and what gets 120v ?
2c) Potable Water, Greywater and Blackwater tanks (Drink/Sink/Poop respectively). Most campers have all of these, but some #vanlife might be able to forgo the last one in favor of a chemical toilet
2c1) I usually see campers with a 'tank level detection system' - a little electronic board hidden somewhere. I always dreamed that some kind of 'sightglasss' system would be more reliable, but I lack experience in blackwater tank design

2d) "Shore Power" comes in 15A, 30A and 50A varieties - different plugs for each. a large sprinter-sized AC is gonna be between 50A and 30A
2e) Inverter - a nice way to turn 12v into 120v, but they are expensive and don't make near as much power as an IC generator or shore power. Now camperkid is plugging their microwave (Hot Pockets yo!) and tripping the inverter..

3) Im seeing more campers with a 'back porch' option - some kind of platform/space, open the outside (either by opening a hatch, or just built-in) that gives a 'back porch' vibe with rocking chairs and wood raillings. Not sure how to do this well on a sprinter but worth a look.

4) Personally Ive always loved the 'outdoor kitchens' - it keeps smoke and mess out of the inside, lots of room to move/prep. If you have an awning or some covering cooking is now a 3-season(?) activity. From what Ive seen, this is either a 'grill table' that connects to the outside of a camper and plugs into the campers propane system (see item 2a above

, OR is it a large hatch on the side or rear, that you open up to reveal a kitchen inside (stove, sink(s?) microwave(?) cabinets and cooking storage...)

again, I don't even own a camper, so take all of the above with a grain of salt, but maybe some other forum members can chime in with good comments based on what Ive written

-Boring Engineer Suburban Dad

t walgamuth · #24 07-23-2020, 01:44 PM

We have had about 8 trailers and 8 vehicles to tow with. We like the flexibility of being able to park the trailer and drive the truck into town or to the nearest antique store. With the correct towing devices it is pretty relaxing to drive a rig.

I'd like a small motor home to tow my race car with and sleep the night before.

engatwork · #25 07-23-2020, 04:25 PM

Personally I like the Haulmark brand on the Freightliner chassis.

cmac2012 · #26 07-23-2020, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Agreed on all points - I mention the family/children thing because I envision a lot of young couples buying a #vanlife and then selling it 3 years later when her belly is getting round...

I tent camp at state parks a fair amount, and talk to camper owners every chance I get- part of me wants one. However:
-Mechanical issues specific to campers
-dealers don't want to do warranty work
-people with larger campers get the runaround: "Oh, we cant fix that, that issue is with the truck chassis, you need to tow your camper (lols) to a truck repair shop"
-comparatively-horrific new-camper warranties.
-Cheap camper construction (roof leaks = common, thin walls, small rivets and stapled wood bracing)
-I guess you can finance a camper for 20 years (its not a car, its a home??) -

all of these add up to a world that looks ugly to me...
...except, I suppose, when you are sitting on a couch, in the AC, looking out a picture window at the campfire outside cooking a dutch oven meal (are we allowed to call it that anymore?), after a beautiful hike through an untouched natural area.

What little work Ive done on vehicle interiors is this: - you *really* want the vehicle inside if you can. This lets you leave the thing open/unlocked overnight (wires hanging out the door), work when its raining, no staring into a blinding sun, the ground under the vehicle is clean and smooth. Many campers have 'exterior accesories' (top mounted HVAC units, awnings, rear ladders/storage) and just being able to have one leg in and one leg out of the vehicle while working - having an indoor space to work would be high on my list.

All that being said, there clearly IS a market for high-er end custom vehicles.

Some more thoughts - for discussion - my biases should be pretty clear above, and with it my lack of real-world experience...

1) I see a manuf. called "Dometic" all over the place, I think they make HVAC and Refrigerator freezers? def. try to buy that off the shelf(?) if possible. propane-powered reefers are a thing in the camper community.

2) Decide early if you want:
2a) Propane - tanks and hoses
2b) Onboard generator, and 120v wiring throughout
2b1) if so, what gets 12v and what gets 120v ?
2c) Potable Water, Greywater and Blackwater tanks (Drink/Sink/Poop respectively). Most campers have all of these, but some #vanlife might be able to forgo the last one in favor of a chemical toilet
2c1) I usually see campers with a 'tank level detection system' - a little electronic board hidden somewhere. I always dreamed that some kind of 'sightglasss' system would be more reliable, but I lack experience in blackwater tank design

2d) "Shore Power" comes in 15A, 30A and 50A varieties - different plugs for each. a large sprinter-sized AC is gonna be between 50A and 30A
2e) Inverter - a nice way to turn 12v into 120v, but they are expensive and don't make near as much power as an IC generator or shore power. Now camperkid is plugging their microwave (Hot Pockets yo!) and tripping the inverter..

3) Im seeing more campers with a 'back porch' option - some kind of platform/space, open the outside (either by opening a hatch, or just built-in) that gives a 'back porch' vibe with rocking chairs and wood raillings. Not sure how to do this well on a sprinter but worth a look.

4) Personally Ive always loved the 'outdoor kitchens' - it keeps smoke and mess out of the inside, lots of room to move/prep. If you have an awning or some covering cooking is now a 3-season(?) activity. From what Ive seen, this is either a 'grill table' that connects to the outside of a camper and plugs into the campers propane system (see item 2a above

, OR is it a large hatch on the side or rear, that you open up to reveal a kitchen inside (stove, sink(s?) microwave(?) cabinets and cooking storage...)

again, I don't even own a camper, so take all of the above with a grain of salt, but maybe some other forum members can chime in with good comments based on what Ive written

-Boring Engineer Suburban Dad

Lot of good stuff to chew on there, I'm sure I'll come back to more of it. I had a Dometic propane fridge once. Great stuff. Totally silent. I hate refrigerator noise, especially if you're trying to sleep in a totally sound pristine place. Not sure how well solar 12V works for refrigeration anyway, seems you'd need a lot of it. OTOH, I'm seeing some of the high end firms boast of "Electric only, no propane!" I can see that some would see risk involved with propane. Plus with these, where would you put the tanks? No 'back porch' as with some of the large RVs. I know they have horizontal tanks for use in semi trailers, not sure how doable it would be to have one under on a Sprinter or the like.

The down side of the propane fridges I understand is slow recovery. IOW if you put in, say, a large pot of leftover stew or the like, it was pretty warm, could warm up everything inside until it can finally suck all the heat out. Takes a while. I think that some absorptive fridges (heat powered) have a small motor for pumping the heat transfer medium. I'm guessing not nearly as noisy as a compressor on regular refrig and it makes them more efficient and rapid. Research needed.

A lot of them I've seen online have half or more of the roof covered with PV cells.

Angel · #27 07-27-2020, 09:56 AM

I can see how everyone wants to go electric. To me, propane is too easy to find (every walmart and half of every other grocery/convenience store) and has too much energy density to ignore. And if these RV companies can stamp out propane equipped campers without them catching fire every weekend when operated by drunk rednecks (sorry campers...you know who Im talking about...) then I'm sure that Cmac's **Vehicles of Fine Repute** will have no problem making that stuff safe.
That being said, it does make carbons yo, so if you can replace propane tanks with a slide-out drawer of batteries (my .mil trucks had that - very nice to work on...), you can just sell it and customer can learn how to 'shed load' when needed. I'm pessimistic but I am sure the customers are not.

I dont know how you make an RV HVAC unit run on solar power - I dont think we can do it with current PV technology 200w/m^2 ?). Maybe the numbers work on that now...I dont know. Maybe put some PV cells on the side for extra 'visibility

Last thing Id be curious about RV rooftop solar- PV panels dont like to flex - so Im not sure what kind of rubber mounts they need, something thicker than what my old W123 air cleaner had, but Id look at what is out there, see if they 'float' on top or are just bolted fast. My impression is that RV campers/trailer have 'chassis flex' a fair amount (TW ? AmIWrong?) and while most materials can handle this (Wood, Al, wiring, propane hoses) I'd want to better-mount any PV cells - Ive seen too many in the dumpster because they were dropped (or someone landed a golf ball on one...). Im envisioning some kind of "UniStrut"-like monstrosity

, to which panels are mounted, but Im sure there are ligher-weight options out there.

I'll shut up now, I've said as much as I can for some dude who doesnt even own a camper

-Boring Controls Engineer Dad

jcyuhn · #28 07-28-2020, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

I can see how everyone wants to go electric. To me, propane is too easy to find (every walmart and half of every other grocery/convenience store) and has too much energy density to ignore. And if these RV companies can stamp out propane equipped campers without them catching fire every weekend when operated by drunk rednecks (sorry campers...you know who Im talking about...) then I'm sure that Cmac's **Vehicles of Fine Repute** will have no problem making that stuff safe.
That being said, it does make carbons yo, so if you can replace propane tanks with a slide-out drawer of batteries (my .mil trucks had that - very nice to work on...), you can just sell it and customer can learn how to 'shed load' when needed. I'm pessimistic but I am sure the customers are not.

I dont know how you make an RV HVAC unit run on solar power - I dont think we can do it with current PV technology 200w/m^2 ?). Maybe the numbers work on that now...I dont know. Maybe put some PV cells on the side for extra 'visibility

Last thing Id be curious about RV rooftop solar- PV panels dont like to flex - so Im not sure what kind of rubber mounts they need, something thicker than what my old W123 air cleaner had, but Id look at what is out there, see if they 'float' on top or are just bolted fast. My impression is that RV campers/trailer have 'chassis flex' a fair amount (TW ? AmIWrong?) and while most materials can handle this (Wood, Al, wiring, propane hoses) I'd want to better-mount any PV cells - Ive seen too many in the dumpster because they were dropped (or someone landed a golf ball on one...). Im envisioning some kind of "UniStrut"-like monstrosity

, to which panels are mounted, but Im sure there are ligher-weight options out there.

I'll shut up now, I've said as much as I can for some dude who doesnt even own a camper

-Boring Controls Engineer Dad

I can add a few comments. I’m spending the summer in my 25’ Sprinter (Mercedes content!) motorhome. Currently in Montana doing some cycling. It’s not a van, but rather a small class C.

Solar is useless relative to the energy requirements of HVAC. The only way to air condition a van is via shore power or a generator. I do know of some folks that have large banks of lithium batteries and a 3,000 watt inverter to run the AC. Their 600 amp-hours of battery will run the AC for 3-4 hours before depletion. The largest/best solar array that will fit on the roof of a 25’ motorhome generates about 25 amps in mid-day sun. So it takes 24+ hours of full sun to fully recharge those batteries - several days worth. You can see the problem...

Dometic is a large privately owned supplier to the RV and marine industries. They make HVAC, cooktops, refrigerators, toilets, etc. Probably more stuff of which I am not aware.

I have a Dometic 3 way ammonia cycle refrigerator. It runs on 120V, 12v, or propane (+ a little 12v for control electronics). The problem is, it doesn’t actually work acceptably well. In ambient temps above 90ish, it cannot hold safe food storage temps. Driving from home up to Amarillo on day 1 in heat up to 105F, the fridge temp was 51 degrees. With improving battery technology, compressor fridges are taking over in the RV world because they actually keep your food safe to eat...

I’ve never heard of issues with solar panels flexing. That said, most RV manufacturers install flexible solar panels. They just glue them to the roof and wire them up. The installation is simple, leak proof, and invisible from the ground. The downsides are the panels cost more, aren’t as efficient, and have a relatively short life.

I’m not much of a fan of solar on RVs. A modern lithium battery system is more useful. It stores so much energy that charging it via solar seems rather pointless. You’re better off with a generator or 2nd alternator on the engine to produce a very high rate of charge for a short time when needed.

t walgamuth · #29 08-01-2020, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

Personally I like the Haulmark brand on the Freightliner chassis.

Which is a rebadged mb...well used to be at least.

cmac2012 · #30 08-04-2020, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcyuhn

I can add a few comments. I’m spending the summer in my 25’ Sprinter (Mercedes content!) motorhome. Currently in Montana doing some cycling. It’s not a van, but rather a small class C.

Solar is useless relative to the energy requirements of HVAC. The only way to air condition a van is via shore power or a generator. I do know of some folks that have large banks of lithium batteries and a 3,000 watt inverter to run the AC. Their 600 amp-hours of battery will run the AC for 3-4 hours before depletion. The largest/best solar array that will fit on the roof of a 25’ motorhome generates about 25 amps in mid-day sun. So it takes 24+ hours of full sun to fully recharge those batteries - several days worth. You can see the problem...

Dometic is a large privately owned supplier to the RV and marine industries. They make HVAC, cooktops, refrigerators, toilets, etc. Probably more stuff of which I am not aware.

I have a Dometic 3 way ammonia cycle refrigerator. It runs on 120V, 12v, or propane (+ a little 12v for control electronics). The problem is, it doesn’t actually work acceptably well. In ambient temps above 90ish, it cannot hold safe food storage temps. Driving from home up to Amarillo on day 1 in heat up to 105F, the fridge temp was 51 degrees. With improving battery technology, compressor fridges are taking over in the RV world because they actually keep your food safe to eat...

I’ve never heard of issues with solar panels flexing. That said, most RV manufacturers install flexible solar panels. They just glue them to the roof and wire them up. The installation is simple, leak proof, and invisible from the ground. The downsides are the panels cost more, aren’t as efficient, and have a relatively short life.

I’m not much of a fan of solar on RVs. A modern lithium battery system is more useful. It stores so much energy that charging it via solar seems rather pointless. You’re better off with a generator or 2nd alternator on the engine to produce a very high rate of charge for a short time when needed.

I need to look into the mounting of solar cells. I know I've seen photos of vans with about half of the roof covered. The ammonia/resporptive fridges are sort of slow to cool. It's an amazing principle but not a great performing one. I had one in my shop once that I ran on 120AC. It worked somewhat but didn't freeze stuff worth a damn.

W/o that I'm thinking ice is really the only way to get onboard food refrigeration.