BMW and MB - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 08-12-2002, 09:34 PM

Hi all. I have a concern about the MB reliability. A friend of mine has a 98 C-280 seden and the car needs a new AC system and some tranny problem. All these problems seem too pre-mature to a 98 MB.
On the other hand, his another transportaton-98 328i is much more reliable, so far except regular maintenance, everything is in good shape!
So, MB fans, please do not be offended. I just want to get some opinions from the internet!! I personally think MB is more reliable than BMW; however, my thought may be wrong.
What do you think? BTW, is the new MB C-sedan made is Germany or MEXICO??????????????????
Happy motoring!!

elau · #2 08-12-2002, 10:11 PM

The C-Class is still manufactured in Sindelfingen, or so the Mercedes Enthusiast magazine January issue stated. But I am sure there will be parts and components made in other countries as well.

OK, I am sticking my neck out here for I am sure someone will surely disagree. I still think MB has a better reliability than BMW. It is true that MB has some quality issues in the last few years. But as far as engineering is concerned, the vehicles are built solidly. Bimmer, as with any manufacturered goods, is rather tight when new. After a few years of usage, the cars generally show its age quicker than any MB that I have encountered.

BTW, both the C-Class and the SLK were awarded Europe's New Car Assessment Program (NCAP) five star and four star cars respectively. The C-Class is rated as Europe's second 5 star vehicle (the first was Renault Laguna).

Gilly · #3 08-12-2002, 11:30 PM

We service both at our dealership, they seem fairly comparable as far as the number of tow-ins, which to me is the ultimate guide to reliablity. MB has it's rash of problems, BMW has theirs. For quite awhile on I believe primarily the 540i, they were constantly replacing whole engine blocks for some reason, that ain't good. I know there were some fitted blocks being replaced on ML320's, we never have had one yet.

Gilly

suginami · #4 08-13-2002, 01:25 PM

In 94-95, BMW's 530i was a 3.0 liter V8. Also around the same years, although I'm not sure of the exact years, their 4.0 liter V8 had a special kind of metal that lined their cylinder bores called Nickalsil. From what I've read, the sulphur in our gasoline caused this lining to disintegrate, causing whole engines to destruct, needing complete replacement.

dtanesq · #5 08-13-2002, 02:55 PM

I own one of each (see signature), and drive both with equal amounts of pleasure, but pleasure gleaned for different reasons.

In my opinion and only from my personal experience (so no flaming please), the Benz is more reliable overall than the BMW; it is tougher, designed for years of use and can take more abuse than the BMW. The fit and finish of the Benz is better (and we're talking about a car that's 5 years older, although in terms of mileage roughly equivalent). I wrote in this forum before that when my 300TE finally expires, the BMW will have long been consigned to the scrap heap.

The BMW is more fun to flog, no question. It is easier to modify, it's sexier, the stock stereo system is worlds ahead of the Benz. It handles like a dream, especially with the wheel-tire and suspension piece changes I've made. I recently came off a stretch of driving the 5 where I got 33 mpg from a tank of gas. But two pieces of the interior trim fell off one day during a high speed run - the little screws which held them on had simply worked their way loose. The rear door seals have somehow decided to shrink up, meaning that they don't stay on the rail which is supposed to hold them. The oil pan gasket is made of CORK, for heaven's sake, which means it needs replacing (a very slow, but smelly leak). There were idler pulleys which had gone completely dry when I took over the car. I've had to replace the windshield.

The TE is a tank - a tank that moves surprisingly well and relatively nimbly for a car that size - and holds everything I need when I need to hold everything I need. The roof rails, it says in the owner's manual, can hold a shade over 300 pounds. I could put my Yakima rack, my Tommasini and my 195 pound butt up there and it would still take a little more. It's a WAGON, for heaven's sake, and it gets admiring looks.

Granted, your post started off talking about a Benz from a different era, and there have been posts about the reliability of the newer cars and I believe that BMW reliability has actually gotten better (the nickasil incident notwithstanding), but between my two cars - the Benz is definitely the workhorse, the BMW the thoroughbred.

aldedmon · #6 08-13-2002, 03:26 PM

dtanesq,
You're comparing a Tank to a Jeep.
The build quality of a W124 bodied MB is far superior to that of any 3 series BMW old or NEW.
I on the other hand have a 94 530iT and a 92 400e and 93 500e.
The E34 BMW is also a Tank just like the W124. Both have personalityand character(read design flaws and problems) but people, both Bimmer heads and Mercedes afficianados(sp) love them respectively. There are just as many BMW lovers looking for the E34 even though it is plagued with the bad V8 motor( of which I had one, but mine "Broke"@ 106K mi...a head stud broke and upper part of the stud bolt lodged between the cam and the lifter. It probably rode inside the Valve cover for years before finally making its way into harms way. Anyway I put a used 3.0 liter from a 95 in it and kept on truckin ) as there are MB Lovers looking for among other things the 500e, 400e, e320TE etc even though they are plagued by the dreaded AC(Of which I have had to do X2 ) radiator neck(X1), TBA (X1),poor headlights, rotors/dist setup( By the way BMW went to Coil Packs(rotor/dist. less) on their V8's back ~ 93-ish. I enjoy both cars Makes immensely. Both have their strenghts and both have their weaknesses. The 400e was a lemon when I bought it new, but I finally got it sorted out. Probably only kept it cause it was New and the depreciation hit would have been too great.The 530iT was the epitome of reliability till...well..the engine went south. Now both are good and I don't plan on replacing either for a very long time. If your friend bought used , tell him to trade and hopefully he'll get a better "draw" next time

BTW a BMW 530iT is BMW'ese for a Station Wagon

suginami · #7 08-13-2002, 03:45 PM

FWIW, Mercedes also went to coil packs in 1993 in their M104 engines (2.8 and 3.2).

dtanesq · #8 08-13-2002, 06:29 PM

Albert -

Please read the opening sentence of my post and my signature again.

Not to pick nits, but I wasn't comparing a tank to a Jeep, I was comparing my W124 to my E34. To borrow from you, I was comparing a tank to a tank. Perhaps I was comparing a Panzer to a Tiger - whatever. I own one of each kind of tank. I enjoy them both immensely, but the build quality on MY particular Benz exceeds the build quality of MY particular BMW. Read again that my response was based upon my experience with my cars, but my experience with other examples of the same cars is similar.

I wouldn't compare anything - other than general build quality, if I actually knew anything about that as it pertains to a 3-series - between an E-class and a 3-series. Had I done that you would be right - tank to jeep and a silly comparo.

aldedmon · #9 08-13-2002, 10:42 PM

Mine eyes deceive me. Somehow I mis read your handle as 93 - 325I not E34 -525i:p . Anyways please excuse my dumb error.

bobbyv · #10 08-14-2002, 12:04 AM

i was reading a comparo of top-end luxury sedans, including the E430 and the 540i. As expected, it being a car magazine, the 540i was favored over the E430, the latter finishing near the tail end of the group, mostly for its price.

in the review of the E430, the writer said something about the excellent ride quality of the car, which may not be given much importance in the comparo test, but would be very much appreciated in the long run after years of ownership.

that was very telling - the Bimmers are the car magazine editors' favorites for their sportiness and how well they did in the tests, and hence get most of their votes most of the time.

The Benz, on the other hand, is rewarded by brand loyalty from its real customers, who come to appreciate the car (and the philosophy behind it) over an extended ownership period.

rickjordan · #11 08-14-2002, 12:43 AM

Personally I care about new car comparos. I mean, all cars are going to be "tight" and reliable, generally speaking, when they are new. I want to know how well will the car hold up after it's 5 years old or older. Soooo many car companies say how well their cars were rated on customer intial quality surveys. Hey, I want to know how well it's holding up after they are no longer backing it up. The fact that I can still buy just about every part for my Mercedes, despite it's age, to me is backing their product up. How available are BMW parts for a 1983 3 series?

hill · #12 08-14-2002, 01:19 AM

http://www.bmwworld.com/bmw/history/

BongC36 · #13 08-14-2002, 09:52 AM

I owned several BMW's before I bought my first Benz 3 years ago, a 1988 model 190E-2.6. I found it of much higher quality than my 1988 model E30 325i, its contemporary. It was even better than my 1988 BMW M535. 190E was low car on the MB totem pole at that time was it not.

My other Benz is a 1995 C36, which I found to be so much superior to a comparable M3 in fit, fitment, materials and build quality. (and power, he-he) BMW better handling, but looking at traffic through the star up front makes up for it.

The fact that I had sold off ALL of my BMW and now owns MBs exclusivlely reflects my OWN and PERSONAL conclusions on which is the better make.

Cheers

Bong

PERSONAL

dtanesq · #14 08-14-2002, 12:51 PM

No big deal Alfred.

I feel privileged to be able, in a sense, to have my cake and eat it too by having one of each. Sometimes the E34 stands in the dark of the garage for days on end (like the past week) because as Bong says, sometimes it's perfect to be aiming down the road behind the silver star on the silver hood. When I'm feeling racy, the black panzer with the propeller insignia comes out of the barn....

It won't be coming out for as many trouble-free miles as the silver streak, though.