The American Racism - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

jamesnj · #1 10-08-2002, 03:03 AM

I didn't know racism really still existed but there's a new black guy who lives in our dorm who had derogatory words sprayed on his door. Has anyone on this board ever experienced racism? What was your experience and what did you do after it happened?

The new guy is from France and is black which many people find strange. He always refers to what happened to him as "the American Racism". Has anyone here encountered racism? I thought that was really from the past.

Jason Beal · #2 10-08-2002, 03:52 AM

Racism is alive and well I'm afraid. The only difference now is that it is not politically correct to say it out loud.

My best friend down in Florida (best man at my wedding too) is black. I never knew how much he would go through on a day to day basis. I remember once about ten years ago he pointed out that we were being followed through a store. I couldn't believe it when he said it, but it sure as hell was what was happening. They followed us to the front door too, he was very angry.

Another time we were shopping together and he had begun his check out when I came up behind him. They called for a manager to authorize his check. I had to write a check right after him, and they didn't get a manager for anything. I didn't need him to point that out to me. They didn't realize we were in there together.

I remember once we applied for bartending jobs along the beach. We were roommates, and he had much more experience than me. I don't think he got one call back. I got maybe three or four. The list of stories could go on and on for sure.

I don't remember this whole story, but he told me once that a police officer searched his car after pulling him over.

I'm sure these stories are not unique. But it was/is enough to make me understand that things haven't changed too much.

Sorry about your friend. People who do things like they did at your school are cowards in my opinion.

The Warden · #3 10-08-2002, 04:10 AM

Not sure if this counts, but my great-great grandfather (mother's father's father's father) was lynched because he was Polish. The people who did it were acquitted. I believe the widow wound up marrying the prosecuting attorney shortly thereafter, leading to accusations that he didn't really do his job...

This was in New Jersey around the turn of the century.

Kuan · #4 10-08-2002, 08:11 AM

In closed company, you'd be surprised how much the N word gets thrown around. To this day "Orientals" still don't know how to drive. In America, all Jews are rich. All Asians listen to the boss and work hard... and yes, all of them can do math like crazy. Mexicans work hard, even those from Guatemala.

The ignorance never ends...

Kuan

Snibble · #5 10-08-2002, 10:03 AM

How can anyone ask if racism still exists? Especially post-September 11.

Also.. The Warden, that story made me really pissed off to hear a Polish person being killed here just for being Polish. Being of polish desent, I did encounter some Polish jokes... and also some Egyptian ones as well since I am part that too.

Oh well... racism is nothing new, and will never go away. Just deal with it and move on.

Need to point out.. I am particularly surprised that the French guy refered the incident as "The American Racism" because France is also a "racist" country. Look at the record.. even in the last election, the politician who ALMOST won was an open racist. Racism is a WORLD WIDE problem, not just American.

jsmith · #6 10-08-2002, 10:19 AM

the really sad thing is that racism often begins at home...

JCE · #7 10-08-2002, 11:36 AM

Racism is not only an American phenomenon, popular press to the contrary. (There is a database of about 1400 racial slurs that the world's peoples use on each other, but the URL contains a 4 letter word that requires completion for access: http://rsdb.f**k.org/ .) Humans evolved throughout the world with the survival skill to rapidly identify differences in surroundings and others, and to suconsciously treat them as threats until proven otherwise. Anything different is regarded with an initial degree of suspicion/apprehension. Our experiences are used to form Stereotypes, a word which has acquired negative popular press connotations, but is described by Sociologists and Behavioral Biologists as 'useful first approximations for survival/interaction, until events prove otherwise'. Stereotyping used as a dynamic, evolving first approximation is not racist. But using the stereotype as a fixed, unchanging, and sole basis for judgement and action can be racist.

Many of the conflicts in Asia, SE Asia, and Africa are racial in origin, such as the recent Indonesian Dyak and Papuan insurgencies, or the current rebellion in the Ivory Coast, which is less about Christian/Muslim differences than it is about tribal warfare. Similarly, in Europe there is distrust by the French towards Germans, condesencion by Germans towards Italians or Polish, etc.

Americans often feel forms of racism from other countries. My college friend is Japanese, born in California, and Godfather to my son. He says the greatest feeling of racism he ever experienced was when he worked in Japan. He had a great time until the various people he met learned he had been born in the United States. Then he said he experienced the condescension and attitudes similar to the discrimination reserved in Japan for the Ainu, for those who work in leather, or for offspring of Hiroshima and Nagasaki survivors. The explanation was that only people of low ability who 'couldn't cut it' in Japan had emigrated to the United States early last century, so he was the offspring of inferior parents.

Also when I was in college, I had a close friend from China. He spent the holidays at my parent’s house a number of times, and I would double date with him and his Caucasian girlfriend. This changed when I began dating a Chinese woman 'of good family' from Hong Kong. My 'friend' came forward with several other Chinese students I didn't know, and explained I should stop dating this girl immediately, as her reputation was being destroyed from dating a 'Kwai Lo' and if her parents found out she would be returned to Hong Kong in disgrace. I asked why it was OK for him to date a Caucasian woman, but not OK for me to date a Chinese woman. They replied that a man needed his pleasure, but that he would marry Chinese when the time came!

A similar experience occurred when my Spanish-speaking wife, whose family is from Brazil and the Azores, asked a Mexican co-worker and her husband over for dinner. She replied that her husband would never allow it, as he did not believe that LA RAZA (The race) should mix socially with other races!

While racism may be biological in origin and worldwide, it requires social and cultural permission to evolve onto overt actions. Just as our brain gives us an appetite for food, we also use our brains to avoid over-eating. Our culture/social structure helps us learn which foods are poisons. Since our brain does tend to notice differences in skin pigmentation, accent, etc. it is up to us to use our brains to avoid 'over-consumption' of these observed differences. It is likewise up to our cultures (used in the plural, as in ALL the worlds cultures) to help us learn about poisonous behaviours towards these differences.

All the above rant can be summarized as "You can't judge a book by it's cover" Those who do, don't get much of an education.

shanta · #8 10-08-2002, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TXBill
Is being a racist the same thing as having racial prejudice? What I mean is, not the 'over-the-top' obvious racism of spray-painting a racial epithet on someone's door, just the feeling that you need to be careful in dealing with someone of a certain race until you get to know them better because of past bad dealings with other people of the same race. Know what I mean? Kind of like burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me type of thinking. Just asking if I'm a racist or not. I hope not, but maybe I am.

I am not going to call you a racist, but I will say that you have racist tendencies

If you were to say or think that you need to be careful when dealing with someone of a certain race until you get to know them better, then that is racist.

If you were to say or think you need to be careful with people (regardless of race) until you get to know them better, that would not be racist.

See the difference.

I am careful with people in general regardless of race.

Kuan · #9 10-08-2002, 12:56 PM

You cannot just sit there and let it pass. Even our own government has not shown a commitment to stamp out xenophobia and promote diversity in this country. I'll just point to the Wen Ho Lee case as an example. To quote District Court James Parker

Quote:

I sincerely apologize to you, Dr. Lee, for the unfair manner in which you were held in custody by the executive branch

Kuan

Hi-Power · #10 10-08-2002, 01:18 PM

Racism = Ingnorance

Mournful truth !

yal · #11 10-08-2002, 01:18 PM

The problem with racism is that the people doing it think or better yet believe that they are doing it for a logical reason to preserve or protect themselves. Sameway someone would put spf 40 sunscreen on when they only really need spf 15. I really can't think of a cure for it and believe me I have tried to think of one. If you use the example of being burned twice that someone said above you will see what the problem is:-
A guy comes into a store with bad credit to buy something, the store sells him the stuff in good faith and is then stuck with the bill and is unable to collect (OR something similar, I'm sure you can think of something

), another guy who happens to be of the same race comes for a job interview at the store or maybe just to browse, the people at the store still smarting from the credit thing or similar incident deny him the job or follow him around the store, this guy tells his friends and family about his experience at the store, the store owner tells his friends and family about his experience with the original guy, they are now both a little overtly cautious about each other.......One group now will see racism when there isn't none, and the other will see intent when there isn't none...the kids from each group take on their parents anger or frustration and escalate it.........and the beat goes on. Simplistic I know, but you get the picture!

If there isn't a racist on this forum that doesn't respond to this whole thread I will be extremely surprised. Come on don't be shy

Its the American way...

The cure however now that's a tough one...once a vicious cycle starts it takes someone of enormous courage or incidents of enormous significance to stop it on both sides, like the neo-nazi that changes his ways after having his life saved by a black bystander. If you have a way to bottle this up let me know

Shanta: well put by the way!

suginami · #12 10-08-2002, 01:28 PM

I agree that racism exists, but I believe it is rare, and I've lived in a foreign country for many years where I was one of a very, very small minority, so I know how it feels to look different, and to be treated differently.

Your behavior towards others will have more impact on how you are treated than how you are treated because of your race.

#13 10-08-2002, 01:38 PM

Racism will never die, get rid of a racists problem and they will find some one else to hate.
What I find strange about racism is intelligence is not a factor, I know some one well who is racist yet very, very intelligent, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Snibble · #14 10-08-2002, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TXBill
Kind of like burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me type of thinking. Just asking if I'm a racist or not. I hope not, but maybe I am.

LOL.. this reminded me of the Bush speech from like 3 weeks ago.

There's an old saying in Tennessee, probably in Texas, but in Tennessee that says, 'Fool me once, shame on.... [4 second pause]... shame on you. Fool me...... you can't get fooled again.

shanta · #15 10-08-2002, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tkamiya
Is there a difference between being (around/about people of different race):

1) Racist
2) Prejudice
3) Being careful
4) Being concerned

*I* think there is....

I don't think TXBill is/has racist tendencies. I think he is (his statement is) more of 3 and 4.

If you are only being carefule or cautious around someone because of race you have racist tendencies. Racism is racism regardless of the meaning behind it. Racial prejudice is a form of racism. Being careful and concerned is something people should do regardless of race and should have nothing to do with race.