|
|
|
|
|
#16
10-25-2002, 03:49 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Kuan, I am looking for clarification on this statement. Are you referring to government budget "surplus" or private retirement accounts? 
|
|
#18
10-25-2002, 03:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I don't get it
 1. The savings rate in this country is pitiful. We are a nation of debtors. 2. The Federal Government is in debt 5 Trillion dollars. What "surplus" are you referring to?
|
|
#21
10-26-2002, 11:47 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
I haven't had time yet to thoroughly read the previous posts so if by jumping into the "middle" of the thread I seem to miss something that's why. Do you really believe that the government will do a better job of investing your money than you will?? For the most part I don't think that US citezens stick their money in large jars or something. A simple interest bearing savings account will yeild more over many years in compounded interest than allowing the government to waste the money for some new program that benifits few people and gives some politician that ablility to brag about something. I think (and I'm sure you know too) that there are a lot more factors in Japan that have led to the failing economy there. For one thing, many banks choose to continue to bankroll failing businesses (such as unbelievably extravagent golf courses that have never made a dime). Maybe people sock away the cash because they don't have confidence that the banks will be able to keep this up without losing their money. Just my .02 I'm no economist by any means. Definately some ideology thrown in for good measure!
|
|
#22
10-27-2002, 08:23 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
 If I ever did imply that the govt. could do any better then I stand corrected. Since we're on the subject now, I just want to add that I think social security is the biggest scam the govt. has ever perpetuated against the people of the United States. If you look at how it's structured, it's nothing more than one big pyramid scheme. You start putting in money when you get your first job, then you bring in more people when you have kids, and when you retire, you cash out, taking your kid's money while at the same time leaving your kids the problem of recruiting enough people into social security so they themselves can cash out.I DO believe though that the government can achieve the effect of privatizing social security by increasing the limits on IRA's and other tax deferred retirement options. You get the tax credit which offsets the amount you contribute to social security and the added freedom of determining your own fate. Kuan
|
|
#23
10-27-2002, 10:29 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Blackmercedes, I think you misunderstand a great deal of what I write. I do NOT consider myself a failure...quite the contrary. I consider myself a great success because I have EARNED everything that I have, modest as it may be by some standards. However, I'm constantly looking for ways to EARN more, and when I come up short, I DO consider that a short-term failure.
"Young and intemperate", eh?  I think you might be surprised that I'm a little older than you apparently think I am! Regardless...I am ASTOUNDED that you pay/paid over 50% in income taxes and you are not outraged! That completely baffles me. That is such a ridiculous percentage, it actually offends ME that your government takes so much of the money that YOU work so hard to earn! I endured a similar situation to yours in college...I lived on VERY little income, I was a music major from 88-91 and went to school on a couple of scholarships that I EARNED, and the majority of the money (unfortunately not all) came from CHARITABLE donations, NOT from FORCED redistribution of someone else's money! I also had a loan, which I am still WORKING to repay! I put MYSELF through college, with a minimum of "coerced help" from other taxpayers. And if I knew then what I know now, I most likely would not have accepted the scholarship that was funded with tax dollars, just on principle. There are many more variables that affect the difference in US vs. Canadian crime rates...but I don't have any more time to elaborate or continue now...because I'm about to go WORK and EARN some more money, so my government can take some of it away and give it to someone who is NOT working today!!!!!!!!!!  Mike
__________________
_____ 1979 300 SD 350,000 miles _____ 1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy _____ 1985 300TD 270,000 miles _____ 1994 E320 not my favorite, but the wife wanted it www.myspace.com/mikemover www.myspace.com/openskystudio www.myspace.com/speedxband www.myspace.com/openskyseparators www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic
|
|
#24
10-27-2002, 02:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I would like to see a comparison of the amount of money spent to fight poverty, in this country, vs. the number of people who are considered poor. From what I have read and heard the war on poverty in this country has been a failure. I don't think poverty goes down when more money is thrown at the problem.
Someone mentioned a single mother making $8K a year. That some mother can get housing assistance, food stamps, subsidized healthcare and daycare for her kid(s). If she has more kids the Government gives her more money. Now a single person making $8K pays more in taxes and doesn't use any of the Government services that the mother does. Something seems upside down here. I would like to see taxes based on how much Government assistance a person gets. Someone getting free healthcare from the government should pay a greater percentage of their income to taxes than someone who has to pay for their healthcare out of their own pocket.
|
|
#25
10-27-2002, 10:30 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
First, I don’t like taxes either. Second, I do like the benefits these taxes provide to me and my fellow citizens.
In the coming years, it is up to us to help each other… to decide how we wish to live… In the U.S., we have a fundamental choice in front of us: pay more and go forward, or pay less and go backwards. Paying more, we may expect to one day receive the benefits that many people realize today: Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and Welfare security. If we pay the same or less, don’t kid yourself, these benefits will not be around for long. I agree with many members of this forum that it would be ideal if fewer citizens were dependent on the government for economic security. However, I cherish the reality that Uncle Sam is there as my ultimate, fall back position. In the U.S. today, as in many parts of the world, we have prosperity that is unprecedented in the history of human kind. The vast majority of us are lucky to live in a time when we have the power to choose who we are and how we live. For that alone, we should all work hard. Some countries in the world have higher taxes and some have lower. Each of us is, for the most part, free to move. Even with the tough choices in front of us, I like it here.
__________________
Michael 1988 300 SL (5 Speed) 1994 E320 Wagon 1997 C230
|
|
#26
10-28-2002, 01:00 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I don't have a problem with taxes, but rather with how the government spends taxes. I'm not talking about what they choose to spend the taxes on, but about the inefficiencies that are a part of the way the spending is administered. Forget raising taxes, I am convinced that if we could get some people with common sense in office we could receive twice the government benefits we currently are receiving with the same amount of money. NO matter which tax regime we have I think this will likely be the most serious underlying problem, and no matter how it is collected, taxes will always be too much for what we get when these inefficiencies are factored in. I am also convinced that we have increasing marginal inefficiency in the way taxes are handled, as as taxes are reduced governments are forced to use what they have been given (or what they have taken depending on how you look at it) with an eye to make each dollar count more.
Personally I think those stats on who pays what tax are interesting. Most people in lower tax brackets think they pay the bulk of taxes, but they clearly don't (those numbers are very similar in Canada too by the way), personally if the very poor are paying so little tax to begin with, I don't think it would hurt at all for them to pay less tax. I would like to see in Canada a basic personal exemption of $25-30,000 annually instead of the $7,600 it is today. I think this would alleivate some of the bruden on them, after all $1000 is much more for these people in terms of meeting their obligations than it is for those in the higher brackets. That being said I do think high personal taxes discourage personal initiative, but this comes back to waste in government. Very interesting topic.
__________________
Jason Priest 1999 E430 1995 E420 - retired 1986 420SEL - retired Last edited by 420SEL; 10-28-2002 at 04:25 PM.
|
|
#27
10-28-2002, 01:54 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Per-capita cost is far less of a concern to me than the fact that someone else expects ME to be responsible for THEIR healthcare! Why? Quote:
Public schools=government-controlled schools=government indoctrination. We all know it, and we all see the unfortunate results of it every day. Like right now. Quote:
JOHN, THAT IS A SCARY, SCARY, SCARY STATEMENT.  Mike
__________________
_____ 1979 300 SD 350,000 miles _____ 1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy _____ 1985 300TD 270,000 miles _____ 1994 E320 not my favorite, but the wife wanted it www.myspace.com/mikemover www.myspace.com/openskystudio www.myspace.com/speedxband www.myspace.com/openskyseparators www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic
|
|
#28
10-28-2002, 05:35 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Kuan,
You are so right on target about Social Security. It is a bad JOKE, and always has been. If ANY private business or investment of any kind had such poor returns, it would be unacceptable and considered a huge failure! Why are most people apparently OK with their government taking money from them and making absolutely horrendous investment decisions with it, without their consent? Anyone in the US who thinks Social Security will adequately support them financially when they retire had better think again!... Some information that may or may not surprise you. http://www.justfacts.com/socialsecurity.htm http://www.justfacts.com/fiscal_1.html It's LONG....but very enlightening! Mike
__________________
_____ 1979 300 SD 350,000 miles _____ 1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy _____ 1985 300TD 270,000 miles _____ 1994 E320 not my favorite, but the wife wanted it www.myspace.com/mikemover www.myspace.com/openskystudio www.myspace.com/speedxband www.myspace.com/openskyseparators www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic Last edited by mikemover; 10-28-2002 at 06:43 PM.
|
|
#29
11-01-2002, 05:57 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
FROM ONE OF THE GREATEST BOOKS EVER WRITTEN
Frederic Bastiat’s “The Law” is over 160 years old now, but it remains the best book ever written on the proper role of government in a free society. Bastiat wrote this book at the time of the French Revolution. His goal was to steer his country away from Socialism toward freedom and economic liberty. Here is one quote from the book. "Now since man is naturally inclined to avoid pain- and since labor is pain in itself- it follows that men will resort to plunder whenever plunder is easier than work. History shows this quite clearly. And under these conditions, neither religion nor morality can stop it. When, then, does plunder stop? It stops when it becomes more painful and more dangerous than labor. It is evident, then, that the proper purpose of law is to use the power of its collective force to stop this fatal tendency to plunder instead of to work. All the measures of the law should protect property and punish plunder." In America our government does anything BUT protect property, and punish plunder. Work is punished in American by confiscatory tax rates. Those who chose not to work are rewarded with plundered goods; rewarded, that is, as long as they continue to support those who commit the plunder.
__________________
_____ 1979 300 SD 350,000 miles _____ 1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy _____ 1985 300TD 270,000 miles _____ 1994 E320 not my favorite, but the wife wanted it www.myspace.com/mikemover www.myspace.com/openskystudio www.myspace.com/speedxband www.myspace.com/openskyseparators www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic
|
|
#30
11-04-2002, 12:19 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
"higher personal taxes discourage personal initiative"
"Work is punished in American by confiscatory tax rates." Out of curiosity, how many people here have voluntarily given up a higher paying salary because you were discouraged by the higher tax bracket? I pay more in taxes each year than I used to make annually all through my college days, but I would never want to go back to that payscale. -anthony
|
 |
| Bookmarks |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Linear Mode
