Internment Camps II? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Snibble · #1 12-19-2002, 01:28 PM

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By Jill Serjeant

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Hundreds of Iranian and other Middle East citizens were in southern California jails on Wednesday after coming forward to comply with a new rule to register with immigration authorities only to wind up handcuffed and behind bars.

Shocked and frustrated Islamic and immigrant groups estimate that more than 500 people have been arrested in Los Angeles, neighboring Orange County and San Diego in the past three days under a new nationwide anti-terrorism program. Some unconfirmed reports put the figure as high as 1,000.

The arrests sparked a demonstration by hundreds of Iranians outside a Los Angeles immigration office. The protesters carried banners saying "What's next? Concentration camps?" and "What happened to liberty and justice?."

A spokesman for the Immigration and Naturalization Service said no numbers of people arrested would be made public. A Justice Department (news - web sites) spokesman could not be reached for comment.

The head of the southern California chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union (news - web sites) compared the arrests to the internment of Japanese Americans in camps during the Second World War.

"I think it is shocking what is happening. It is reminiscent of what happened in the past with the internment of Japanese Americans. We are getting a lot of telephone calls from people. We are hearing that people went down wanting to cooperate and then they were detained," said Ramona Ripston, the ACLU's executive director.

JAILS OVERFLOWING

One activist said local jails were so overcrowded that the immigrants could be sent to Arizona, where they could face weeks or months in prisons awaiting hearings before immigration judges or deportation.

"It is a shock. You don't expect this to happen. It is really putting fright and apprehension in the community. People who come from these countries -- this is what they expect from their government. Not from America," said Sabiha Khan of the Southern California chapter of the Council on American Islamic Relations.

The arrests were part of a post Sept. 11 program that requires all males over 16 from a list of 20 Arab or Middle East countries, who do not have permanent resident status in the United States, to register with U.S. immigration authorities.

Monday was the deadline for men from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Sudan. News of the mass arrests came first in southern California, which is home to more than 600,000 Iranian exiles and their families.

Officials declined to give figures for those arrested or for the numbers of people who turned up to register, be fingerprinted and have their photographs taken.

"We are not releasing any numbers," said Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) spokesman Francisco Arcaute.

CALLS FOR HELP

Islamic groups and the local chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) said they had been swamped with calls for help.

INS spokesman Arcaute said those arrested had violated immigration laws, overstayed their visas, or were wanted for crimes. The program was prompted by concern about the lack of records on tourists, students and other visitors to the United States after the Sept. 11 hijack plane attacks on New York and Washington.

Islamic community leaders said many of the detainees had been living, working and paying taxes in the United States for five or 10 years, and had families here.

"Terrorists most likely wouldn't come to the INS to register. It is really a bad way to go about it. They are being treated as criminals and that really goes against American ideals of fairness, and justice and democracy," Khan said.

The Iranian protesters said many of those detained were victims of official delays in processing visa and green card requests.

"My father, they just took him in," one young man told reporters. "They've been treating him like an animal. They put him in a room with, like, 50 other people and no bed or anything."

Khan said one of those in jail was a doctor, who was being sponsored for U.S. citizenship when his sponsor died.

One Syrian man said he went to register in Orange County with a dozen friends. He was the only one to come out of the INS office. "All my friends are inside right now," M.M. Trapici, 45, told reporters. "I have to visit the family for each one today. Most of them have small kids."

suginami · #2 12-19-2002, 02:29 PM

I did my history thesis on the internment of the Japanese Americans during WWII, and this is really not the same. First generation Japanese Americans really had no status at all. They weren't even allowed to be citizens. Second generation Japanese Americans were born here and thus U.S. citizens. Every single person of the Japanese race was placed into internment camps regardless of immigration status.

The U.S. government is having people from a select group of countries register with the immigration service if they are here on a temporary visa, i.e. student visa or working visa. It does not affect citizens or those that hold a green card (permanent residents).

If there are people that have overstayed their visa's and are here illegaly, then they ought to be put in jail.

I do disagree with the selectiveness of the action. They are selecting to have register only a handful of people from mainly Muslim countries.

I have many friends here in Southern California from the Middle East, i.e. Lebanon, Iran, Palestine, and Syria and they love living in the U.S. They are all either trying to become citizens or have become citizens. They are some of the most gung-ho and patriotic Americans you will ever meet.

kerry · #3 12-19-2002, 04:58 PM

Since when did those countries become 'enemy' nations? To my knowledge, the US is not at war with any nation at the moment.

This behavior is not very surprising coming from the Ashcroft Justice Department.

kerry · #4 12-19-2002, 05:54 PM

Let me add one more thing to the list: Green card holders are required to serve in the US military if they are drafted!

Thinking of peole from all those countries as enemies is about as sensible as suggesting the Bin Laden and Hussein are in cahoots.

Snibble · #5 12-19-2002, 06:38 PM

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Enemy nation - you are either with us, or against us.

Hmmm.. what about "neutral" countries? Such as Switzerland and such.

Kuan · #6 12-19-2002, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kerry edwards
Green card holders are required to serve in the US military if they are drafted!

Uh, what draft?

Kuan

Ashman · #7 12-19-2002, 09:32 PM

My father is an immigration attorney, but he is currently out of town. I can ask him some questions for anyone if they like in regards to what the immigration laws actually mean, and what is considered to be justifiable.

People here who have overstayed a visa, are in this country illegally the moment their visa expires, and are required by law to leave the country and come back only when they have obtained a new visa, or gotten approval on an extension of their visa.

Being that I work at my fathers office, I see all kinds of injustices done to people by the INS, even when the immigrants have done everything legally and properly.

I can't tell you how many times my father has had to deal with incompetent INS officers and Consuls who have a holier than thou attitude and act as if they have the final say in people's immigration, when they have no authority to make such decisions in the first place. He has had to file complaints many many times against such people and go over their heads to get the job done.

IT is a shame that people are treated so poorly when trying to do the right thing as required by our government.

Alon

kerry · #8 12-19-2002, 10:03 PM

Of course there isn't a draft right now. My point was that despite a resident alien's lack of rights in the US, they are still required to serve in the military like US citizens if there is a draft. This means the burdens and responsiblities of residency in at least one way, outweighs the rights.

kerry · #9 12-19-2002, 10:22 PM

You're right that they pay all taxes. They are no longer eligible for welfare benefits but I think they can collect social security if they pay into it.

kerry · #10 12-19-2002, 10:26 PM

Ashman:
Your comments about the INS are insightful. I think that it has the worse elements of bureaucracy. The people whom it serves are not citizens and lack many of the rights of citizens. Therefore, the INS sometimes treats them in a way that would never be tolerated by citizens.
It raises interesting questions about the relationship of human rights to rights of the citizen.

MikeTangas · #11 12-20-2002, 01:08 AM

Quote:

[i] The people whom it serves are not citizens and lack many of the rights of citizens. [/B]

WRONG.

Every alien, legal or illegal, has full consitutional rights, doesn't matter if they just swan the river, jumped the fence or their vise just lapsed. Soon as they cross the line the have constitutional rights. Legal aliens have every right a native born or naturalized citizen has, except the right to vote.

kerry · #12 12-20-2002, 09:43 AM

If you want to read the laws that apply to legal and illegal aliens and federal benefits, go to:

http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:K_x4zutqSCUC:www.senate.gov/~agriculture/Legislation/Agricultural%2520Law/FNS/prwor96.pdf+resident+aliens+welfare+benefits&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

MikeTangas · #13 12-20-2002, 11:31 AM

I don't recall any part of the constitution that grants anyone the right to work or the right to reside within the U.S. Borders.

Plus, there is nothing illegal about an illegal alien working, really there isn't. What is illegal is for an employer to hire an illegal alien. Now, aliens whose visa is granted for vacation or pleasure (90%+ of those here on a passport) is specifically barred from gainful employment, and should they get such employment, they are out of status and at that point illegally in the U.S.

Welfare, medicare and all the other programs are also not to be granted to illegal aliens, but somehow they are. I will agree that those programs are mostly managed by the individual states rather than the Federal Gov't.

This is all the simple working version of it, I let the Judges and lawyers hash out the fine points.

MikeTangas · #14 12-20-2002, 03:41 PM

An illegal alien can work, only if the emplyoer breaks the law. The illegal alien, who is found working gets deported for being an illegal alien, not because he was working. The student becomes an illegal alien by violating the terms of his admission as a student (unless it's a tech school with work options [or something to that effect], or it is during a break such as summer off).

And yes it is all very confusing, made even more so by the constant meddling of our lawmakers. Remember, all of the fine tuning done to these laws is usually to benefit a small portion of the population, be it the lawmakers constituants (farmers in the farm belt, big industry in the industrial regions) or their own personal agenda. In 1986 Messers Simpson and Mazzouli (sp??) reformed immigration and created the first ever "amnesty" for illegal aliens. The idea was to legalize all of the illegal alien farm workers, so they could openly work the fields without fear of being stopped, questioned and removed from the country. S&M were from the farm regions.

What happened was, all of the illegal who got papers, decided they could now seek a better life in town, quit their low paying farm work (or demanded better pay and were fired), moved to town and got "regular" work. That left the farmers without any farm hands. So, S&M came through yet again and created a "special" class of aliens called Replacement Agricultural Workers. All of this was done under the guise of ending illegal immigration, what it did was show the U.S.'s soft furry underbelly - come illegally, stay as long as possible and Uncle Sam will give you papers.

Now they talk of a new amnesty. Oh joy.

kerry · #15 12-20-2002, 10:34 PM

It does seem unfair doesn't it. Christopher Columbus didn't need a green card. All he needed was Ferdinand and Isabella to say that God had given the land to them. Did your attorney try that tactic?

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