So, where were you really, Lt. Kerry?

[KyGuy]

Today's Tony Snow Column

Tony Snow


Swift Boats, Continued
http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com

| I had an interesting talk with Jim Hurley, the head of Vietnam Veterans for Kerry. Not surprisingly, he disparaged Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, whom he called "Swift Boat Veterans for Bush," and urged one and all to look at the military records reproduced on the Kerry for President website.

The most interesting part of the talk concerned the latest account of John Kerry's whereabouts on Christmas Day, 1968. Kerry's account of this list has shifted and changed constantly over the last 35 years. Some versions have him spending the day in Cambodia, dropping off spies. Others have him in a barracks, 55 miles from the Cambodian border, scribbling entries into his diary. Hurley offered a hybrid today, saying Kerry was ordered onto the water Christmas day, made his way to the Cambodian border, endured three separate engagements with the enemy, and returned home. I count at least six distinct versions of Kerry's whereabouts on that day, including this one, released Wednesday by Michael Meehan of the Kerry campaign:

"During John Kerry's service in Vietnam, many times he was on or near the Cambodian border and on one occasion crossed into Cambodia at the request of members of a special operations group operating out of Ha Tien.

"On December 24, 1968 Lieutenant John Kerry and his crew were on patrol in the watery borders between Vietnam and Cambodia deep in enemy territory. In the early afternoon, Kerry's boat, PCF-44, was at Sa Dec and then headed north to the Cambodian border. There, Kerry and his crew along with two other boats were ambushed, taking fire from both sides of the river, and after the firefight were fired upon again. Later that evening during their night patrol they came under friendly fire.

"It is an acknowledged fact that Swift Boat crews regularly operated along the Cambodian border from Ha Tien on the Gulf of Thailand to the rivers of the Mekong south and west of Saigon. Boats often received fire from enemy taking sanctuary across the border. Kerry's was not the only United States riverboat to respond and inadvertently or responsibly across the border. In fact, it was this reality that lead President Nixon to later invade Cambodia itself in 1970."

Curiouser and curiouser. Stay tuned.

[koop]

He was in Alabama silly.

[KirkVining]

The Republicans continue to argue against Kerry based on trumped up 40 year old garbage. It's the same stuff they pulled on the Clintons and the public is reacting in the same way - this may get the red meat Republican crowd all hot and bothered the way Hillary's cattle futures did, but the average voter just doesn't give a $hit. During the Swift Boat Freak Show Kerry's poll numbers have jumped in New Jeresy to the point it is no longer a potential swing state, they have increased in Michigan by 7 points, and Kerry is now running ahead in many others. The Apocalpse Then stories may work for the Koolaid set, but most people are focusing on the economy which seems to be going back into recession, and the continual bloodbath in Iraq which shows no signs of letting up any time soon, and the absolute crazed approach the Admin has shown to terror alerts. Now they have added a new element, the choice of a Republican Party hack, Porter Goss, to the position of CIA director. Goss himself is on record saying he doesn't qualify for the job, and the 911 Commission singled him out for critizism for failing to even hold any hearings at all on terrorism prior to 911. As usual, the only reason he seems to have been selected is that he may be worth a few votes in Florida, and because he can be counted on to keep the family skelatons in the closet.

[mzsmbs]

what's up wit the the ass as your avitar?

[KirkVining]

Its to help people expose what an ass they are. Looks like it works.

[mzsmbs]

:p

[MS Fowler]

Kirk, I hope the fishing was excellent, and you are well rested, relaxed, and ready to apply yourself again to whatever it is you do.
Let me answer a few of your points.
It is Kerry; not the republicans, who have made Kerry's Viet Nam service the issue. He presents himself, ( reporting for duty) as qualified to be Commander in Chief because of his service in Viet Nam. So now, no one can question Kerry? Is that "mean spirited"? I think the American people should be "allowed" to judge for themselves where the truth is. Or is the truth not important to you? After all, you guys have tried to make Bush's National Guard service an issue.
Typical of the democrats ( the party who decry the politics of personal destruction) there is no answering of the accusations of the SwiftBoat Vets for Truth. All that the dems can do is to threaten to sue, and make the expected personal attacks. The answer is simple--let Kerry release his full records.
As for Kerry's war records... Isn't it amazing that the evil republicans have not managed to leak them? When the roles were reversed, ( Clinton) the records of one of Clinton's accusers managed to be leaked, and NO ONE in the precious liberal press made a single squalk about. If there were to be a leak now, I would expect a half dozen investigations.
As for the nomination of Goss. As recently as 2 years ago, Nancy Polossi ( Not sure of the spelling), a Leader of the democrats, suggested that Goss would be a good nominee. What changed?
Is it my imagination, or do dems simply oppose everything that the republicans, or the President presents? Shouldn't some things be above the realm of politics?

[KirkVining]

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Kirk, I hope the fishing was excellent, and you are well rested, relaxed, and ready to apply yourself again to whatever it is you do.
Let me answer a few of your points.
It is Kerry; not the republicans, who have made Kerry's Viet Nam service the issue. He presents himself, ( reporting for duty) as qualified to be Commander in Chief because of his service in Viet Nam. So now, no one can question Kerry? Is that "mean spirited"? I think the American people should be "allowed" to judge for themselves where the truth is. Or is the truth not important to you? After all, you guys have tried to make Bush's National Guard service an issue.
Typical of the democrats ( the party who decry the politics of personal destruction) there is no answering of the accusations of the SwiftBoat Vets for Truth. All that the dems can do is to threaten to sue, and make the expected personal attacks. The answer is simple--let Kerry release his full records.
As for Kerry's war records... Isn't it amazing that the evil republicans have not managed to leak them? When the roles were reversed, ( Clinton) the records of one of Clinton's accusers managed to be leaked, and NO ONE in the precious liberal press made a single squalk about. If there were to be a leak now, I would expect a half dozen investigations.
As for the nomination of Goss. As recently as 2 years ago, Nancy Polossi ( Not sure of the spelling), a Leader of the democrats, suggested that Goss would be a good nominee. What changed?
Is it my imagination, or do dems simply oppose everything that the republicans, or the President presents? Shouldn't some things be above the realm of politics?

Its fine with me if they want to attack Kerry's service record. Judge and search for the truth all you wish, I will be glad to present you with facts from sources other than Free Republic and News Max to help you in your quest for truth. In fact, this allows you the opportunity to allow me to expose the guys who spread this stuff for what they are-paid political hatchet men, as well as opportunity to ask KYguy and the rest of the gang who support these guys if they think Bush was guilty of dereliction of duty for not showing up for his flight physical, an intentional act that resulted in his grounding as a pilot, after the taxpayer spent millions training him to fly a jet. While they are busy pissing and moaning over whether Kerry was picking rice out of his ass or not, why are they not concerned that Bush wasn't court martialed for obviously failing to perform his sworn duty to protect the people of the US by flying his jet, and instead chickened out and split for parts unknown? Maybe it was Bush who was in Cambodia! No one seems to know where the hell else he was for a year. If they are so mad about Kerry using undue influence to get a Purple Heart, perhaps they should tell me how equally upset they are that Bush, whose Daddy was a US Congressman at the time, did not even get an official reprimand for his act as required by Army regulations? Persoanlly, I'll take the guy who was willing to put his life on the line over some guy whose service record says he chickened out and hightailed for the hills, any day.

[MS Fowler]

Kirk,
So now you insult all members of the National Guard? Are all National Guardsman chicken and high-tailed it ?
Moreover, according to the records, Bush did volunteer for Viet nam, but he was flying the wrong aircraft. But even accepting what you wish to believe, Bush never made his military service an issue. He never tried to make political capitol on that service. It is part of his past. As is his alcoholism.
Kerry, on the other hand has made his service the cornerstone of his campaign. He is the one who has constantly reminded everyone that he was in Viet Nam. If he had mentioned it only in passing, maybe it wouldn't be so important. But, because Kerry has made it an issue, it is fair game for both sides to discuss. Unless freedom of speech only applies to what you want to say. Why not refute the statements of the Swift Boat Vets rather than all the personal attacks. Your comments seem more and more like democrat talking points right from the DNC. You attack the doctor; your attack is wrong because he is the doctor that treated Kerry. His corpman signed the report, SOP. Not a lie.
Seems like the only worthy men who you would allow to speak are the ones who say what you want to hear. I say, let them all speck. Let them all document their stories as best they can. Let the American people decide. I trust the American people, when given access to all information, to chose correctly. You, on the other hand seem like you would restrict the free speech of some.
All Kerry has to do is release his records.

[KirkVining]

I have no problem with anyone speaking anything they wish.

Actually, I was referring to Bush's disappearing act after he missed his physical. He hightailed it to parts unknown. The silence on Bush's excreable conduct as a soldier compared to Kerry's meritorious service which they believe is something that should be spat upon really says more on this subject and those who advance it than anything I could say, so why should Iwant them to stop or wish to prevent them from speaking? As I stated, I hope they talk it up as much as possible. According to the polls, it seems to be doing Kerry more good than harm. If you check Zogby's web site, you'll see he is now moving four former solid Bush states into the toss up column, and is now moving Pennsylvania and Michigan into the Kerry column.

Kerry also has every right to hawk his service record if he thinks it will help him get elected. Considering Bush and his Mission Accomplished idiocy, I would say he hasn't exactly shied from trying to portray himself as some kind of Napoleonic military figure.

[mzsmbs]

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Kirk,
I trust the American people, when given access to all information, to chose correctly.

That's the prob missy. I don't. Too many don't care, too many too lazy too check into the truth; most vote by what they hear on moron window...

[moparmike]

I ignore all this crap now. It really is grating on my nerves and has been for 2 months now. I am this >< close to not caring who gets elected POTUS, as long as all this shiat stops.


Besides, I know all I need to about Kerry from his voting record. Coming back on Super Tuesday so that he could vote against my gun rights? Coming back on Super Tuesday to continue the Scary Guns Ban? Coming back on Super Tuesday so that he could join Kennedy in declaring the .30-30 the choice round of Terrorists, and voting to ban, countrywide, the manufacture and possession of all centerfire ammunition, effectively making all firearms into paperweights? AND THIS GUY IS A FRIEND OF GUN RIGHTS???

(http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/R?r108:FLD001:S51634 ---look down towards the middle *cntl-F and type ".30" and click the link under it
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r108:4:./temp/~r108vys6sd:e0: --at the top)

Guns are but one of my issues. But no politician who does not trust me with a firearm is going to be entrusted with my vote. Kerry's record speaks volumes to me, and tells me to stay as far away as I can. But fret not all you who think Bush is evil; there is an 85% chance that I wont be voting for him. But there is a 100% chance that I wont be voting for sKerry.

[mzsmbs]

see? a perfect example....

[koop]

MS Fowler,

At this point your just embarassing yourself.

[moparmike]

mzsmbs, what do you mean? I know where my facts come from, and I watched them for hours on c-span debating and voting, and then pulled up resources that all could view pertaining to the issue I was discussing.

What is your point?