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  #1  
Old 08-28-2003, 09:27 AM
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Don't like your pay? If not Sue them!

The tussle over overtime

Wave of lawsuits energizes a movement to change the rules

By Martin Wolk
MSNBC

Aug. 27 — Dan Gabel is calling from the road — again. As an Oracle Corp. trainer, Gabel figures he has been traveling on business for at least 11 of the past 12 weeks, routinely putting in 60 to 70 hours a week, and he’s tired of it.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/952421.asp?0cv=CB10

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  #2  
Old 08-28-2003, 02:20 PM
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I can see this as a move to REALLY advance his career....pathetic!

Maybe he should go back to teaching so kids can learn from him how to be winey babies
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  #3  
Old 08-28-2003, 02:31 PM
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Corporate Big Dogs are taking advantage of him. He's not being treated like a human being, instead he is used as a pawn by the higher ups. Very much like what industrial tycoons did before labor regualtions,,,i.e. long work hours for not enough pay and extrondinarily little room for advacement.

Do the math....

The claim is Oracle trainers make between 60-100 K per year...in this case lets average 80 K.

Lets say he works 49 weeks out of the year at an average of 65 hours per week...this equals 3185 hours per year. Divide the 80K a year salary and get 25.1177 per hour. Although, when benefits are figured in, bonus', etc it does come out to more...look at the inherent stress associated with the job and continous travelling.

If it's you own business, work hard, but, if your working for someone, unelss a true opportunity arises, don't bother to put in the extra mile. Do your job, no more no less. You won't be appreciated by Big CEO.
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Last edited by CaptAlex300e; 08-28-2003 at 02:37 PM.
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  #4  
Old 08-28-2003, 02:33 PM
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We live in a free country.....quit and find another job if you don't like it.
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  #5  
Old 08-28-2003, 02:49 PM
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Truth is, with this economy, corporations find it easy to downsize and thus expect the same productivity with a smaller workforce.

As a result, the workers that haven't been displaced are stressed and overworked. The lack of available jobs make it difficult for any individual to take the recourse of finding alternative work. So the corporations win here.
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  #6  
Old 08-28-2003, 02:52 PM
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I think that unless he knew that his work weeks would be so extensive BEFORE he agreed to take the job, he should be in his right to sue.

If this guy knew that he'd be travelling and working almost double the accepted work week either because his contract stated so, or because the nature of his job dictates so, he should not sue because he knew what he was getting into.

However, if he thought that he'd have to work for around 40 hrs a week and his company pressured him into working more than one and a half times that probably by threatening to take away growth opportunity or firing him, he should sue and win. If you accepted a job thinking that it would require the standard work week but then found out that it needed much more, wouldn't you be angry? Wouldn't you be upset that it interfered with other activities and responsibilities you had in your life? Wouldn't you feel violated that you had accepted a job (which is always a major life decision) that you believed came with certain parameters, only to have those changed as soon as you signed the contract? If this is what happened, it is entirely wrong ethically and I think it is indicative of a larger problem we have with corporate practice.

Imagine what would happen if we deregulated regulations regarding work amounts and hourly wages. Every employer could tell their employees that if they didn't work atleast 60 hrs a week, they would be fired and that wouldn't be very fair.

Anyway, I don't think we know the details so we shouldn't speculate. This guy could be right, he could be a schmuck.

Alex
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Old 08-28-2003, 02:56 PM
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G-Benz,

I agree/understand that the economy has its' up and downs.

I just can't stand the whiney/crappy attitude of these wussies who still HAVE jobs.....their answer? Hire an attorney! The economy is still struggling to get to it's knees....it will still be a ways before it gets on it's feet

There are MANY people RIGHT NOW who would JUMP at the CHANCE to have HIS job.

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side
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Old 08-28-2003, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaptAlex300e
he is used as a pawn by the higher ups. Very much like what industrial tycoons did before labor regualtions,,,i.e. long work hours for not enough pay and extrondinarily little room for advacement.


Yeah, that's what Henry Ford did (remember the $5/day employee)

Dieselhead, how many hours do you expect to be working on a weekly basis as an attorney? Will you sue your employer if you have to work MORE? I doubt you'll be paid hourly by your firm.

Last edited by el presidente; 08-28-2003 at 03:17 PM.
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  #9  
Old 08-28-2003, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
“The issue is the time that we’re having to work for that pay.”
No.... really???? Didn't know you actually HAD to work to get pay.
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  #10  
Old 08-28-2003, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Dieselhead, how many hours do you expect to be working on a weekly basis as an attorney? Will you sue your employer if you have to work MORE? I doubt you'll be paid hourly by your firm.
As I said, if he knew that he was getting into long long work weeks BEFORE he decided to take the job, he should stop whining and quit. BUT, if he didn't know about them beforehand, he has a valid complaint. As a law student, I know exactly what I will be getting in when I start my job so I'll really have no right to complain when I find myself working from 7 to 9.
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  #11  
Old 08-28-2003, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DieselHead
As I said, if he knew that he was getting into long long work weeks BEFORE he decided to take the job, he should stop whining and quit. BUT, if he didn't know about them beforehand, he has a valid complaint. As a law student, I know exactly what I will be getting in when I start my job so I'll really have no right to complain when I find myself working from 7 to 9.

We are on the same page.

If I need an overworked/underpaid attorney lacking sleep and a social life, I know who to call after '05 I trust you'll pass the bar on your first attempt
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Old 08-29-2003, 10:22 AM
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Thats what people from NYU law do...they get corporate jobs and work long hours. They will depending on how they palce in class start at 80-110K per year. But work 80-100 hours per week.
80 hours per week multiplied by 49 weeks equals 3920 hours per year, divided by 80,000 equals $20.42 per hour.

Next Year I'll be headed to Law school as well...only about 26 miles east of your Diesel...Hofstra Law. I hope to get into a comfy law firm on the Island..Actually Drive to work, and work max 50 hours per week...until I start my own law firm at which point in time I shall delgate work and only work 4 days a week. Why work hard...enjoy life...I'm not saying be lazy, but pick up many activities. The reason why I don't want long hours is because I'm into lots of things, fishing, boating, working at my house, restoring boats, historical research of New York and bridges (yes I find it fun), gardening, diving (both underwater and sky)etc, etc,etc........

Now two real plum job's are Nassau or Suffolk Cop, because they make on average 105 GRAND per year. They don't work very much usually less then 40 hours. They provide an invauable service but still...they do very well. Getting into the academy is the tough part as hiring is scarce.

Or commercial airline pilot. Big money and you only work three days a week. Choose reginonal routes and you spend almost zero time away from home. Airline pilots make 120,000 plus once promoted to Capt. on a moderate sized jet....i.e. A320-300 737-400, EMPR-45 etc. It's hard to get into the industry though.


Drop me a PM Diesel. We could B/S
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  #13  
Old 08-29-2003, 11:20 AM
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Regardless of what this guy intended to do...landmark lawsuit issues seems offbeat at first.

Remember the first time a woman sued for sexual harrassment? I'm sure male repsonses were similar...

...if this ends up changing legislation somewhat, it would prove good or bad for workers in the future.

Regardless of whether the jobless out there would be thankful to have a job with long hours, I don't believe anyone should be forced to endure long hours simply because of the threat of layoffs.

Whether this was his direction, or as some stated, just a whiny individual, is up for grabs!

The video of the "Rodney King" incident brought awareness to the nation regarding excessive police force...even though RK was FAR from being a poster child of the innocent African-American victim...
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  #14  
Old 08-29-2003, 11:33 AM
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The guy will probably win. I worked for fortune 5 company a few years back. They were sued by some employees who had the same gripes. The courts sided with the employees and the corporation had to pay them for all of the back overtime hours.

After the court case, the company now pays Chinese overtime for every hour worked past 40 hours per week. Chinese overtime is your average wage salary per hour divided by two so you get half or your normal salary for each hour worked past 40 hours. Not a very good deal but at least it was something. For the real big fish, it was a very big win but I don't think many claimed the Chinese overtime for fear of demotion or retarded growth. After the court case they made all the new management sign a contract for employment that spelled out very clearly they were expected to work up to 80 hours per week with no additional compensation.
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  #15  
Old 08-29-2003, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by super SEC
After the court case they made all the new management sign a contract for employment that spelled out very clearly they were expected to work up to 80 hours per week with no additional compensation.
That's what would have made all of this moot. So I can reasonably assume that the long hours were not implied anywhere in his original contract.

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