PC / Windows XP PRO
 

I like the MAC also, but it is a PC / Windows world out there, more software for the PC

The only software I find that is "missing" is scientific instrumentation software (not a surprise) and games. I don't play computer games, so it's no loss to me.

How long this will be the case remains to be seen.

I still won't give up my Macs until I'm forced to.

Peter

I've never seen a CAD package for Macs, strange since it looks to have the horsepower for it and stability that PC CAD users can only dream about.

Are you kidding? There are tons of Mac Computer Aided Design and Engineering programs. Of course, if you think the CAD universe consist of a single product, AutoCad, then you'll have to wait.

Take a look at this story for "irony" . . . Bill Gates living in a house designed on a . . gasp . . . Macintosh?

http://www.architosh.com/news/1999-07/0730-gateshousemac.phtml

OS 10.3 also contains X-Windows, so any Unix CAD package will probably run fine, too Both Microsoft and Apple are using Unix as the basis of their OS these days -- funny how things work -- the first multitasking OS designed by academic computer science PhDs is the one everyone ends up using instead of the "hacker's paradise" we've been stuck with since 1980... Wonder if there is any connections between academic research and OS stability. Hmmm.

Lots of CADD for Mac, but you have to look for them. Don't remember the names off hand (Design CAD and DenbaCadd come to mind, but it's been some time since I looked).

I believe the Mac version of Unix is pretty slick -- won't run on my current computer, so no personal experience, but the Mac interface is SO much nicer than Windows interface, I'd expect the same under Unix.

X-Windows is different -- not in ROM like the Mac "native" windowing system, so it varies much more between programs (like Microsoft's Windows programs), but MUCH more stable and there is a ton of software, much of it very "high end" floating around. Recompile the source code and fly.....

Peter

At home I have one Mac running 10.2 and the other running 9.something (its an old computer). The Unix is so well hidden in layers. Its an onion, like "Shrek". I finally figured out "root", but you gotta work for it.

I used a Unix variant years ago with a Bourne Shell. Whadda POS for a non-geekoid. It was MS-DOS or CP/M run amuck. It convinced me to stay the heck away from Unix.

OS-X is lightyears better than naked Unix. It is so cleverly implemented that its really difficult to find Unix in the dang thing. However, if you're accustomed to OS 9 or before, this OS-X is radically different after you get past the superficial parts of Finder. Apple was smart in leaving the interface sufficiently familar that even old tyme Mac-droids can use it out of the box. Those Apple people are some smart boys and girls.

In all honesty, I rarely need multitasking and such either at work or at home. So at work, I'd do just fine with MS-DOS or Win 3.1. Except I guess for things that require huge memory store like image processing/GIS and statistics--major issues for me at work. At home OS 7 through 9 would work for me just fine.

Don't use a Mac at work. The gov makes users jump through a huge series of hoops to buy anything non-Microsoft. For me, the difference ain't worth he hassle of fighting the system. Makes me one of those faceless geeks in that 1984 commercial.

All in all, you're just another brick in the wall.

Botnst

I read similar things about the W140 but I'm enjoying the S420.

We recently got a Dell desktop and laptop for the house. Win XP home on both. Turned them on the first time and they found the wireless network and recognized and self-installed any accessories. I don't know how much easier it can be.

I don't dislike Apples or Macs, I just can't justify the price premium.

I'm impressed that with this Dell desktop I can be on this forum in 35 seconds from a cold start. A little longer for the laptop. Older MS OSs took minutes. There's obviously room for improvement since Pocket PC boots in the time it takes to lift your finger from the on button. Do Macs have a long boot sequence or are they ready to go when you press the on button?

SBC makes DSL with a Mac seem daunting. The installation kit came with a wizard for PCs and a booklet for Macs. WTF?

Doesn't Gates or MS have a stake in Apple?

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

I tried DSL with BellSouth a few years ago and it was a PITA. They were Mac-clueless and it took them a week to decide that it was my home wiring--too noisy. I tried rewiring from the box but it never became reliable. I gave up and got Cox Cable for my ISP then bought a Motorola modem and a Linksys router and was up and running in a half-hour with both old and new computers sharing the line. I can connect my Micron my Dell laptops from work without any problems, too. I can file share among them too, but rarely need that capability. Its way, way easier to share PC to Mac than its is Mac to PC. But Word and Excel files are practically seamless between platforms.

Boot-up to Internet on my older Mac is loooong time. Gotta get all the little squirrels running in their little cages. With my OS-X machine its about a minute or two from cold system. From logon its about 30 sec or so I guess. Never thought to time it.

My Win XP at work is faster 'n' sh-e-e-it on almost everything but boot-up. If I have to go from cold start I could go get a cup of coffee and be back in time for logon. But I think that's a function of our LAN security and file sharing.

In all honesty, XP is the best OS Microsoft has ever kludged together. Every iteration Microsoft gets better at its business and less distinguishable from Macintosh. For instance with XP, I rarely crash a program more than once or twice a week and I don't think I've ever seen the "blue screen of death" since we migrated to XP. With NT I'd bring that blue screen into life at least once a week. And NT was way, way better than 3.1 for networking.

I don't know much about pricing. What I like about the Mac is that it is bullet-proof and since my kids were preverbal toddlers, they've been able to use them with very little guidance. As Macs at home get surplused (I am so far behind the curve its embarrassing) I donate them to local schools. There are always teachers who love'm, even the older Macs.

Botnst

We have all 3 in our lab: Mac, Windows PC, Linux PC. A couple people like windows, many like the Macs, and I like Linux. Of course, the people who like windows are most productive using windows, the ones into Macs get the most done with Macs, etc.... Whatever suits you best is probably the best thing to buy?

There are two things that grate on me about Apple -- price (way too high, even for premium equipment, which it is) and their attitude.

Remember, this is the company that pissed away business customers because they refused to put a parallel printer port on their boxes, for reasons of "we know what's best for you". They also refused to provide standard networking software for years -- "ours is better" . Yeah, sure, but it ain't what everyone needed, and it's not like Apple computer invented networking or anything. All the protocols preceded the applications.

I love the systems in general, but the "proprietory" attitude makes me nuts. Ditto for proprietary firmware in drives, etc. Most of that is gone now -- by force, not choice, as Apple nearly died before they figured out no one was going to pay three times as much for the same drive PC users could get at Best Buy and just plug in.

I've had this discussion with a consultant at Apple (position uknown, probably managment), who told me I must be a "commodity computer user". I suppose all the other people who used to have a Mac and swapped to PCs must be as well, eh?

Goes a long way towards explaining the loss of market share Apple has suffered over the last ten years. Way out there equipment, but don't expect them to respond to YOUR needs, they know best, especially when they don't know what you are talking about.

Jobs and Wozniak started their business selling illegal cable descramblers, if this is a hint. Lots of ego to go with the smarts, but neither one has any formal compter theory training. Neither does Bill Gates -- he dropped out. Today, for what he did, he'd probably go to jail instead of leaving school (he hacked into the campus mainframe and gave himself lots of time, which he used to develop a commerical application to simulate an Intel 8080 processor, then filed a patent and copyright). It shows in the OS, sadly.

The Mac shell for Unix is great, I hear. XP is OK -- I've never crashed mine at work, anyway, but GE uses Windows 2000 for nearly everything. I've only had virus trouble (the usual ones), no crashes. No viruses on the Mac so far.

If you can afford a new Mac, you are getting premium equipment. All of mine still run, including the IIfx (40 MhZ, 24 mgs ram in 1991, $10,000 when new, no monitor -- I got it used), so they will be with you as long as you want to run them. Software is great, if not mainstream, performance is equivalent, although IBM and Motorola are lagging on processor speed due to low sales, etc., a good deal if you don't have to worry too much about price.

Peter

Is this ironic, or what?

Mercedes has lots of non-standard features requiring lots of specialized training for mechanics.

Mercedes cost a lot more than the average car.

Mercedes is slower off the line than cars that cost half their price, and less.

Mercedes owners care for their cars with attention and critical analysis far beyond most other car owners--who tend to think that Mercedes owners are a kind of nutty cult.

Mercedes owners think their cars are insanely great and don't understand why otehr people think they've lost their minds.

Botnst

I've done some searching on the Cad front and what I'm seeing is mainly archetectural software, if you're a mechanical designer like I am this stuff doesn't cut it and even if you could get the output drawings you wanted, it would really only export to Autocad which I have no use for. Unless I'm designing in solids I might as well get my pencils and vellum out again. So, I'd be forced to use a windows emulator to run a CAD ap, would I really be farther ahead than buying a windows box? How does this work am I essentially running 2 OS's cause I would expect that to hit the efficiency and stability. I'd love to get of the MS toll road if I can.

For an engineering workstation, try http://www.architosh.com/e-store/hardware/workstations.phtml

Mark:

CADD is a problem on the Mac, I'm afraid. Mostly "designerware" like AutoCadd (another dud of a program that became "standard" -- ask my brother the toolmaker....).

For CADD, look at CadKey. Probably no Mac app, but you could always run Virtual PC with no problem, CadKey isn't all that resource hungry. Blazing fast and fully tool-path smart (Virtual Gibbs is a great program for toolpathing, too). Not expensive, either.

Don't forget, you can run X-windows on OS 10.3, so you may be able to go that way, too.

Peter

I'm running OS X 10.3 on my iMac G3 at home (it is one of the last iMacs). It is very stable (so long as you keep away from USB DSL modems, it much prefers an ethernet DSL modem). The boot sequence is short, shorter than my PC laptop by a long way. The new finder works well; I don't think you're supposed to go looking for the UNIX bits; you don't need to, and I can't imagine why you'd want to.

I too find Macs very well built. My iMac must be four years old. My Macintosh SE is almost 15 years old. It still works perfectly; it runs MacWrite and a StyleWriter II no problems. That is enough for many people. It cost GBP3,000 all that time ago, but it is still in service.