In defense of pre-emptive strikes... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mikemover · #1 10-30-2003, 08:48 AM

The problems implementing pre-emption were foreseen by none other than Machiavelli, when he compared cool statecraft with medical treatment: The more glaring the symptoms of any disease, the more obvious its diagnosis -- but the more difficult its treatment.

By the time a doctor is certain that a patient has lung cancer, the time for effective treatment probably has passed.

The best presidents, like the best doctors, act when their evidence is still inconclusive. Otherwise, the window for effective action passes. If pre-emption does become another war casualty, I fear far more serious casualties before we rid civilization of this scourge of terrorism. And, sadly, that’s not about to happen anytime soon.

A "self-defense and deterrent only" approach has worked in the past, but this approach operates under the assumption that an enemy has a just as strong a self-preservation instinct as you do. Our new enemies do not operate this way. They want to be martyrs. The WANT to die, as long as they can take some of us with them! So this old-fashioned approach will no longer serve us. Pre-emption must be here to stay.

Mike

Botnst · #2 10-30-2003, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikemover
...They want to be martyrs. The WANT to die, as long as they can take some of us with them! So this old-fashioned approach will no longer serve us. Pre-emption must be here to stay.

Mike

If they want to become martyrs we should make every effort to accomodate them.

mikemover · #3 10-30-2003, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Botnst
If they want to become martyrs we should make every effort to accomodate them.

hahaha... AGREED!

Mike

savas · #4 10-30-2003, 12:39 PM

FYI - entire article. I happen to scan through it as well. Interesting read but not too suprising given the authors background.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,101479,00.html

Kuan · #5 10-30-2003, 02:48 PM

OMG Mike if you want to plagiarize at least change the words around.

mikemover · #6 10-30-2003, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kuan
OMG Mike if you want to plagiarize at least change the words around.

I never said it was mine...I don't want credit, I want AWARENESS.

Mike

savas · #7 10-30-2003, 06:16 PM

Quote:

The author's "background" is irrelevant

I guess we disagree on this. I always think that an author's background is relevant, especially when the subject matter is political.

rbn3 · #8 10-30-2003, 06:33 PM

second...
did young george act pre-emptively or reflexly. I always defended his dad for not going "on to Bagdad..." Dad was a pragmatist, son is an idealist. The latter are better people, but maybe worse leaders - too soon to tell on this one. "Dad" was chastised for the turkey shoot on the highway after "the war was over". Obviously, the turkey shoot should have gone on longer.
Hind sight is 20-20.

kerry · #9 10-30-2003, 06:33 PM

While some of those comments might apply to terrorist martyrs they have no relevance at all to the war on Iraq. The adminstration deliberately misled the public into thinking that there was a connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda. There was none. It was not a pre-emptive war. It was a war of agresssion in the interests of empire.

rbn3 · #10 10-30-2003, 06:47 PM

you give the US Govt. too much credit. It was misled just as much as the UN. Saddam wouldn't "come clean" and that convinced the US that he was guilty. He was playing poker. US called his bluff and everyone lost. This is not the first such disaster. Most wars start over such miscalculations.

mikemover · #11 10-30-2003, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ilvanakis
FYI - entire article. I happen to scan through it as well. Interesting read but not too suprising given the authors background.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,101479,00.html

The author's "background" is irrelevant. The fact that it is TRUE is what's relevant. We can no longer use our old-faithful "show of overwhelming force" to deter an enemy, because this enemy doesn't care about dying.

Mike

Kuan · #12 10-30-2003, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rbn3
you give the US Govt. too much credit. It was misled just as much as the UN. Saddam wouldn't "come clean" and that convinced the US that he was guilty. He was playing poker. US called his bluff and everyone lost. This is not the first such disaster. Most wars start over such miscalculations.

No, George W. was misled by Paul Wolfowitz, Cheney, Jeb Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Dan Quayle, (yes even Quayle) William Bennett, and others in the PNAC.

#13 10-30-2003, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikemover
Otherwise, the window for effective action passes.

from the sec of defense, as reported by Reuters :

Posing challenging questions to the military Joint Chiefs of Staff and others in the memo, dated Oct. 16 and released on Wednesday, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the United States had no yardstick for measuring progress in the anti-terrorism war launched after September 2001 attacks.

The Pentagon and the White House said the memo properly raised issues for Pentagon leaders to consider.

COST-BENEFIT RATIO

He challenged Pentagon leaders to consider and discuss troubling issues, including whether or not the United States was capturing or killing terrorists at a faster rate than they were being created by extremists.

"The U.S. is putting relatively little effort into a long-range plan, but we are putting a great deal of effort into trying to stop terrorists. The cost-benefit ratio is against us! Our cost is billions against the terrorists' costs of millions."

Rumsfeld, speaking to reporters after a closed briefing for senators, said the memo was an effort to raise questions.

#14 10-30-2003, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Botnst
If they want to become martyrs we should make every effort to accomodate them.

I remember our old creed. Army Airborne soldiers provide the enemy with the maximum opportunity to die for his country.

Kuan · #15 10-30-2003, 09:25 PM

Are we getting confused here or what? Matyrs die for their cause, whatever it may be, and not often for their country. Soldiers die for their country. Most suicide bombers and terrorists have no bloody idea what it is to serve.

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