Originally Posted by t walgamuth

one of the biggest things that bothers me about iraq is that the war is being prosecuted by so many national guard units and reservists. many are back over there on their third tours. this is so unfair. their lives are being ruined. divorces are running at very high rates.

if the war is so important our leaders should ask for a draft so that these people who are supposed to be emergency back up can be replaced by regular army. this is not being done because imho our leaders dont want to pay the political price for a more fair system.

so these folks who signed on because they needed a side job with benefits are stuck over there doing a police action with about 1/3 the number of troops that were recommended by experienced military leaders. (who said this was what was needed in the first place.)...
tom w

Originally Posted by TX76513

I had the same question(s). So I asked my daughter who is currently in Bagsdaddy (her word) for her candid views vs the media.

This is an excerpt of her e-mail:

Right now I am in no situation to be able to discuss my own personal thoughts on this state of affairs. There is a lot going on over here, and the nine times out of ten the TV is right. What we see as not correct is the number of people that are wounded or injured otherwise. I am rechecking everyday my sanity on
joining the military and still have not come up with a good enough
justification for this place. If I remember correctly I served my four years last April. We are fighting for our country right? We can't even keep the war with in our company to a minimum how the heck are we suppose to win the war with this country. We are a NG unit we have old hand-me-down for uniforms/equip - most of us have never been trained with some of the weapons/equip we are using........We have though, moved across the street from our present location. We have permanent tents with air/heat, we are able to shower everyday, hot showers,and we have some semi normal bathrooms. Here is the kicker – they brought over some young civilians (contractor) to build these new facilities (deluxe tents). They are making $306 a day and they live in RV’s that travel from camp to camp. Real moral booster................... In the mornings I get up and do PT. Ya, PT, have you ever heard of PT in a war zone....oh, that's right the war's over right? That's why soldiers die every day!! My body, mind and soul is tired, and not sure how I will ever adapt to normal living when I return. We have changed so much over here, some good, some bad. I fight
the urge to not be that person that I am turning into but can't beat it anymore. I just want to come home.....................


Just sharing

Originally Posted by Botnst

The fraud of primitive authenticity
By Spengler

Two billion war deaths would have occurred in the 20th century if modern societies suffered the same casualty rate as primitive peoples, according to anthropologist Lawrence H Keeley, who calculates that two-thirds of them were at war continuously, typically losing half of a percent of its population to war each year. [1]

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Whoa, that is sobering. Reminds me a bit of 60 Minutes piece about a young lady who was stationed at one of the lesser known prisons in Iraq. I think they ran it in '03 or '04. I didn't find this site til after this thread was all but buried, so I hadn't seen this one before.

Sure hope it turned out well.

Originally Posted by Botnst

I have never heard of anybody in my lifetime who didn't get the enlistment terms in writing and repeatedly read to them before the signed and held up their right hand. It has probably happened a few times, but I haven't heard of it. You sign-up and take the money and take the bennies, you better be prepared for the risks because it is not your choice when to go or for what reason...

Originally Posted by dculkin

You can say that all you want, but there is no way that the members of the National Guard and Reserves signed up for what's going on in Iraq. I'm sure their deployment meets the literal terms of their enlistment agreements, but they had the right to expect that the President would act in good faith in deploying troops.

Originally Posted by MBZ12

Another Blackhawk down! How many more of our men and women are going to perish in the Middle East before something drastic isn't done to resolve this conflict? The body bags are increasing by the day and all I seem to get is a business as usual attitude from our government. At what point do we finish the job??? Just frustrated to hear about our military personnel having their hands basically tied.

Originally Posted by Botnst

You can say what you want to but there is no way anybody signs up without full knowledge that they maybe ordered into combat and that they have no choice of where, when or why...

Originally Posted by dculkin

Agreed. I never said any different. What I said was that the soldiers had a right to expect the President to act in good faith. You, apparently, believe that the President owes the soldiers no duty of good faith, which is a remarkable position, to say the least.

Originally Posted by Botnst

I don't believe I said that, you might want to check.

I reject your premise and so therefore your conclusion is also unacceptible. But I also don't want to get bogged-down into one of those pointless, endless ping-pong games and for that reason I didn't address that particular issue...

Originally Posted by TX76513

That's an old post. More sobering is that last we ever heard from her was July 7th 2004

Originally Posted by dculkin

If you don't want to get into a "pointless" conversation, then you should be willing to admit the logical conclusion of your statements.

The unmistakable meaning of your replies to t walgamuth and me is that the President owes no duty of good faith to the soldiers. Under your reasoning, whether the President acts with good faith and fairness doesn't matter because the soldiers gave an oath of loyalty. IMHO, that is a twisted concept of loyalty. Far from excusing the President's bad faith, the soldiers' oath of loyalty is the source of the President's duty of good faith.

I assume that you reject the notion that W acted in bad faith, but that doesn't really matter. Under your logic, whether W acted in bad faith is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by John Doe

Guys (not just you D, but you know my limitations on quoting), a man just shared with us he lost his daughter in this thing. Can we just close this particular thread and piss at each other on another one out of respect?

Originally Posted by axlechassis

Over a 100 people die every day in alcohol related car accidents.
and that has been going on for 30 years.
Where is the media outrage? Something drastic needs to be done right.

Over 100 women die every day from breast cancer. That has been a known fact for many years.
Again where is the media outrage? Something drastic needs to be done about it right.

Does anyone see something out of proportion here.

I'm certainly not minimizing the loss of our brave soldiers in Iraq, but the media has lost perspective right now with thier lopsided reporting of what is going on in Iraq. The media is following their own agenda. If they were sincere in hteir concern about the loss of human life they would'nt be focusing on Iraq

MBZ12.... the media is trying to manipulate you so you do something drastic, like vote for Howard Dean next fall. That is the agenda. Dont get sucked into that vortex.