Actually i do believe the SC is a toyota soarer, the IS actually the Altezza.Lexus does not compete with mercedes, their cars cost about a 1/2 the price of a mercedes. Apples and oranges, like saying the corvette competes against ferrari 360. Or even closer to home, like lincoln competes against mercedes. MB emphasizes the 65K and up price tag. the most expensive lexus is only about 65K.

Perhaps not price wise, but quality wise- they compete.

I beg to differ. Lexus are toyotas, with electric windows and heated seats. Mercedes cost more to make as well as costing more to purchase. I'd wager that lexus makes more money per car, as a percentage, than Mercedes.Thusly, whilst Mercedes cost a bunch, they yield a relatively low overhead in comparison to the value of materials used to produce them. If a car costs more to build than another car, one must assume that the level of quality is higher, especially in the automotive sense. Sheetmetal and such can only cost what it costs and the rest is technology and wages paid to the employees building the car.

I guess that everyone has their opinions. I just feel that the Lexus LS400 / LS430 has a quality as high as a Mercedes of the same era- at least the 1990-1994 models. My 1990 LS400 has 225K and is still 100% squeak and rattle free- even over the largest bumps. Engine is so smooth and quiet you cannot even hear it running. Extremely high interior build quality and high quality interior materials. I think that they are equal to, or even better than most 1990-94 model German cars. You would actually have to closely look at or drive a 90-94 LS400 to actually appreciate their quality. I do not think that the 95-00 LS400 or even the 01-04 LS430 is as good as the 90-94 LS's.
Also, on the Lexus site similar to this one- someone has reported that they were going to buy a 1994 Lexus LS400, with 504,000 and it was still in perfect running order- still with the original non-rebuilt engine and transmission.

I am not saying Mercedes is low quality/reliability. I agree that Mercedes makes extremely high quality cars. I actually think that the 1981-1985 300SD and 86-up 300SDL are about the most bulletproof cars out there- so much that I am currently in the market for one- but I think that the 90-94 Lexus LS400s are as good, as far as reliability, but perhaps a bit better with electrical systems. Electrical system is Mercedes only weak point.

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2004 Toyota Sequoia Limited 4wd
1991 Lincoln Town Car Executive
1991 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1988 Mercedes 300SEL
1972 Chevrolet Caprice Kingswood Estate 9-passenger wagon
1973 Pontiac Grand Ville
(Prior MB's: 1974 240D, 1985 380SE, 1984 190D, 1993 400SEL)

Please enlighten me as to where you found out that the Celsior shares a platform with the Crown. Regarding the ES, it seems to me that it has a different dash, doors, seats, and console from the Camry. Not to mention that every exterior panel is different. Similiar, yes. 99% similar, not quite. The Lexus IS = rebadged Toyota Altezza, but it is based on a COMPLETELY different platform than the Corolla. It's RWD, to start with. I'm an MB guy myself, but I must admit, however it is that Toyota markets their cars in the US, has been VERY successful. On a side note, Lexus dealer service is really something to experience. Anyhoo, I hope this doesn't turn into another Lexus vs. MB thread. To each his own!

I love my SDL but I would like to chime in and say that my former Camry, currently has 120,000 miles and literally runs like the day I bought it.

Regular maintenance,brakes, etc... and timing belt water pump replacement at 60,000 miles, which cost 330.00

Still has original hoses,plugs,spark plugs and wires.....

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Enough about me, how are you doing?

I don't know about that one, seems like a half baked statement to me. My girlfriends toyota has electric windows, by the way

Why must everyone bash lexus based on its toyota roots? Sounds like SNOBBERY to me!

On a different note, has anyone seen that lexus xmas commercial where the yuppie couples exchange Lexi as xmas gifts? I'm going to hurl.

Mike

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'90 300SE 298k
-300K and it gets put into retirement.
'80 300D 255k Purchased new by family in 1980.

Had a:
1973 220 (gas)
1980 300SD
1992 400E

It is snobbery. You're talking in a Mercedes forum, you can't really expect much less, just kidding.

I dunno what the deal is, its kinda like Audi, they ARE just volkswagens. I feel the same for lexus and toyota, maybe its just me but i take personal offense when someone says a lexus or toyota is as good as a mercedes benz, its just absurd!

Now i can admit i may be out of line, but nonetheless, its just where Im coming from. They dont really compete, theyre 2 completely different companies with 2 different profiles. If nothing else, the fact that Mercedes doesnt share lines with anyone else, for the most part, shows that they put more time, effort, money, what have you into their automobiles than Lexus. Thusly, the outcome will be a better vehicle.And you know, how many miles an engine will get really doesnt matter so much. Ferraris are great and they last about a trip to the store and back before an engine rebuild. Besides I got a Chevy Silverado with 220'000 miles and original eng/trans. Now is everyone gonna say its as good as a Mercedes???

You need to calm down a little and not let these things bother you. There are many things in life more important than what people you've never met face-to-face think about MB vs Toyota/Lexus. What's your stake in taking it personally?

There's the whole issue of context to consider. If the objective is to get from home to work and back, a Toyota/Lexus can do that every bit as well and often for a lot less cost than a new MB. In fact, just about any car can. It's not until you get into objectives like withstanding a side impact from a Hummer and stirring the soul that a MB starts to shine.

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL
83 300SD ... $950, see cars forum

Yeah thats a good point and everything but I didnt mean i'm turning into the incredible hulk or anything, i still have a rather relaxed attitude towards the issue. Acura, lexus/toyota and honda people always on my jock about how i just overpaid for my car then i remind them if I hit a curb my car wont fall apart.

And in my life, the most important thing is my car, so therein lies the logic for taking offense.

I don't disagree with the principle of what you say, but at the end of the day a 95 RL or 95 LS in similar condition to my S420 retains a heck of a lot more of its MSRP than a 95 S420. Did I skip ahead to the next chapter of evolution or am I holding on to a 20 year old dream?

Just to tie this back to the original post, if mafiose's next car is an Acura or Lexus, it will be more because of how MB fell short than any marketing ploy by those manufacturers (rebadgers?).

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL
83 300SD ... $950, see cars forum

No one here is even questionning MB's well built cars................but like many have said......it's a decade old at least.

No one should also question the japanese's mastering of automobile computer control systems, and devices.

MB's engines are great.....built if they are controlled by electronic components.....(which are failing a lot), then what do we do ....just ignore the problem???!!!

MB has a extremely solid body compared to other cars. But less solid than the old days ......for the sake of economics and safety....but you need working windows switches and motors, and electonically/mechanically sound sunroof motors....So what do we do just ignore the problem....?????!!


MB also has one of the best and highest quality interiors (my car is 7 years old, well taken care of, and I swear.....when I have detailed...I feel that I am sitting in a brand new car)....but what do u do ..when your A/C's screen just fails, or your seat electronis can't get your set back or front or higher, or if your cluster all of a sudden decides to sleep forever......do we, or should we ignore this problem.......!!!????


You so called MB fanatics........( and I know I will be stirring up alot of feelings here when I will say this).............................you fanatics are responsible for this more than anyone else....just because you refuse to leave MB's reputation and history where it belongs....and that is the PAST...
IF you really love a product, you should examin its weakness and strength. But most importantly you should look at the weaknesses and address them .....improve them ......when you ignore them and make yourself think that they are inexisting then you hurt, other customers hurt, your product's quality hurt, everything hurts...........this is what MBUSA is good at...ignoring things......and some people also fall into that trap..

PEOPLE!!! ........things change in life.....it is really ok to ackowlege that another car is as good or bettter than your Benz. How hard is that......

It's funny how people with 80's model MB's come up and post their opinions about the newer MB's.....well with all do respect this is out of context..... your cars are undebatably the best machines ever made ......not true of ours though.....let's keep that in mind

You want weird!!! my car who was acting up last week (everyone probably knows the story by now).......and I was told needs either an ECU or throttle body MAYBE......well I decide because of anger...to drive it until it freakin breaks.....well what do u know .........Same way the problem suddenly started.....a week later....it suddenly goes away...

who do u want me to believe the mechanics...or trust my car.....

Nothing can describe the feeling of being in a Benz....you just feel you are on top everything in life.....like you are the king of the road.

But it is not feelings what makes the car.....its german mechanics...and engineers.....who lately seem to be producing a cheaper car....yet still charging ?$$$? for it.....

True- most Toyotas- even 1980s models have electric windows and locks.

Also someone posted as if Acura and Honda were two totally different companies. Actually, Acura is made by Honda Motor Company, just as Lexus is made by Toyota, Infiniti made by Nissan, Audi by Volkswagon, etc.

The Maybach is made by Mercedes. Does this mean that the Maybach is not a good/better car, because it is made by Mercedes? Absolutely not. It would sound like that if you said Lexus is not good, because it is made by Toyota Motor Company.

Lets face it- there are good and bad in both makes. More good than bad, because overall- Toyotas-Lexus, Honda-Acura, Nissan-Infiniti, Maybach-Mercedes, are all excellent cars and are some of the best cars in the world.

Seems to me that a maker of very fine wines should never buy a beer plant........

William Rogers.........

Hhmmm.... Let's see. my S 500 L was based from the experienced gathered from wonderfully engineered cars like the W116, W126, W124, W123 and an amazing line of luxury cars dating almost over a century back.

The LS430 comes from the experience of very cute Corollas, Coronas, Crowns, et.al.

Now the difficult question: which one to buy and drive???

I'll admit it, electrically speaking Japanase cars are superior, and it is just because the Germans are hardheaded about making any electrical device so complicated it tends to fail all the time.

But in terms of quality, ANY Lexus (fancy Toyota) is still centuries away from the quality of an M.B. Remeber the Maybach is BASED on the W140 and most of its underpinnings are identical. Would you create a world luxury super sedan based on the LS430? I sincerely doubt it.

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A. Rosich
CL 500, 1998
S 500 L, 1998
E 320 T, 1995 [Sadly sold ]