I think most folks here will agree that M.B. quality really went down after Schremp took over.

He ruined two great companies: M.B. and Chrysler (and with Chrysler, what was left of my beloved AMC, which basically only amounts to Jeep at this point.)
Regards, Eric

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89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.

Lol, is this the Benz whine thread?

Just reporting in that my relatively *new* 1998 E430 has been hassle-free since my last post here in 2007 (post 110 on this thread). Zero issues other than maintenance items.

I had to replace the O2 sensors, but they were original and the car now has over 190,000 KM on the clock. It still gets incredible mileage and the last emissions test produced essentially negligible readings (almost zero). Did the motor mounts, easy DIY, again age-related. The actual engine, alternator, electrics, etc. have been flawless.

It has proven to be an extremely reliable car and an excellent daily driver. Considering I paid a pittance for it in comparison to the cost of a new car, I am a pleased MB customer. Every Benz I've owned thus far has been reliable, solid and a pleasure to drive. The 300E holds the record, but the E430 is on the track to match it.

My newest ride, the 2007 GL450, has had a few small issues and they have all been covered under warranty. This is a very complex and fully loaded luxury vehicle, and I bought the first model year. I am EXPECTING issues from this car down the road, you can't have every gadget on the planet and expect it to function correctly all the time. It won't happen. Things will break. It will require diligent maintenance. Even the wiper blades have to be purchased from MB as they are not compatible with OEM brands, the housing won't fit (and yes I carry a spare set in the trunk). The nav screen tilts outwards and downwards to open access to the CD and DVD slots. While this feature is pretty cool, and always gets a smile when shown to a passenger, I'm waiting for it to break, as it undoubtedly will. Same with the powered folding side mirrors. Or the powered rear seats - which can fold up or unfold at the push of a button. A very useful feature, and not one you are likely to find in a Japanese SUV. However, this complexity and LUXURY means it is simply another mechanical motorized part that is subject to wear and tear and will break at some point. Most rear seats have to be folded down by hand. Hence, one has to pay - in more ways than one - for the added luxury of a motorized seat.

It's all about perspective and being realistic about what you expect from a vehicle, IMO. I don't whine about the cost of maintaining the GL even though it is substantially higher than my E430. It will be due for its first dealer service soon and I'm expecting a hefty bill. It's the first time I'm using an MB dealer to service an MB that I own. I plan to have the dealer service it until the warranty expires. Then I will resume service on my own. Will the dealer be expensive in comparison to doing it myself? Absolutely. However I made this choice clearly when I bought the car.

I hear alot about how the *new* Mercedes aren't what they used to be, the quality is gone, etc, etc. I also think this is a bit of pining for the 'good ol' days'. Sure, older MB's were heavier, simpler and hence easier to maintain in some ways. However, the new cars perform leagues beyond what the old ones did. The new transmissions and engines are incredible. There is no maintenance for the engines other than oil changes and the plugs at 150,000 or so. The 7-speed tranny in my GL is amazing, it always feels like it is in the sweet spot and power is available anytime. With my 300E, the 4-speed tranny had a mind of its own. I'd have to floor it sometimes to get some acceleration, and that 2nd gear start...minivans would blow me away at lights.

People were dissing the *new* 722.6 transmission when it came out - too complex, not as bulletproof as its 4-speed predecessor, yada, yada. It has proven to be exceptionally reliable and robust and has been used in many other cars including: Viper, Jaguar XFR/XJR, Range Rover, Corvette, Challenger..and the SLR. The only issue about this tranny, IMO, was the 'sealed for life' silliness from MB that many diligent owners promptly ignored.

So again, I think it's about perspective.

I think sometimes people have unrealistic expectations from a car - especially when buying used. A properly maintained MB should easily give many years and miles of dependable, safe and enjoyable use.

However, if it was not properly maintained...then caveat emptor.

All IMHO.

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Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired

"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon

I have to say this thread strikes a chord in me. My 1998 E300 has had it's share of troubles, most of which could have been negated by better engineering,I.E. more durable{expensive}components.

I love the the solid feel and ride it gives me, I also admire the rock-solid fit of the components in daily use, doors, windows, trunk....I really abuse this rig.

What I find fault with is the corners that were obviously cut in the car's genesis.
On first glance the 210 chassis was never meant to contain a long, heavy diesel engine....the radiator is located too far forward for safety and I have replaced 4 of them in 6 years, chiefly by that most common of driving mishaps, "bottoming out"....even coming to rest against a concrete barrier is sufficient to push the radiator subframe,{a feeble thing,an afterthought}into the fan, with disastrous results, I have also replaced 3 fans, whose blades have broken while in contact with the aluminum radiator.

Recently I have reverted to type in driving my antique cars daily for runs of less than 100 miles, the model T Ford is the acknowledged king of reliability, has not needed even a tranny band adjustment in 4 years. The Hisso runs a close second, but it's weak spot is the cone clutch. The Vauxhall was designed as a performance car and must be treated as such, requiring brake and valve adjustments every 10,000 miles.

I'll stick with my '49 Pontiac, bullet proof 4 speed Hydramatic, used in WWII tanks, the most simplistic spark system and rock-solid assembly and materials....and yeah, I rigged up a Vintage Air AC system which does not materially affect horsepower.

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There is the issue right there. a 96 C Class. I had a 2000 myself. You are aware that those old C Classes are hands down one of the worst cars out there. I bought mine with about 50,000 miles. That car is suppose to be "Quality" I do not think so. Its junk. I traded it in for a 2005 Mercedes and I could not be any more happy. We love the 2005. The car actually rides like a Mercedes should. Quality is much much better. As my son says "It must of been Octoberfest when the first C Classes where built"

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2015 ML350 4Matic. Wifes DD
2015 GLK350 4Matic. My winter DD
2012 E350 4Matic. Road Trip car
2009 CLK350 Coupe Designo.Kleemann Tune For nice days/DD
2006 CL600. V12.Eurocharged Tune. Enough said
2005 CLK55 AMG Coupe.Kleemann Tune. For the sound and style
2004 CLK320 Cabriolet. 2005+ Interior swap. For the sunny Florida days & beach days

You said it right there. When Juergen Schrempp took over the MB division, then the company, he ran it like any commodity instead of a company that has a rich history.

When that history dies, so will the cars' chances of success.

Some have died, some not. Fortunately, he is gone. I wonder if Dieter Zetsche is any better, and now that Dr Huebbert is retired from the MB division, I don't know who's running the ship.

The C-Class will go the way of the K-car while the E-class and the 123, 124 and 126 models will be remembered like the Dodge Dart slnt-six you can't kill, and the heavy duty vans and trucks.

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Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

You ain't kiddin. See my note. I was at Chrysler and watched the barbarians sack Rome.

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Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

The ends justify the means, at least for killing a zombie thread

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1982 240D 4spd, 327,000mi

Amen to that. A contractor I work with has an old Dodge van with an ole 2-bbl carbureted slant 6 as his daily work rig. The van has over 750,000 miles on it or some such crazy high number. He says it does use a little oil but it doesn't smoke and it just keeps running. He has tried to kill it but it won't die. And actually there are loads of Ford and GM pickups out there with well over half a million on them. Shoot, I have 230,000 on my Exploder with 4.0 V6 and that poor thing has been rode hard and put away wet and off-roaded all over the California desert for years. So longevity is not the exclusive purview of damnfurrin cars, nowhere near it.

What a great thread. Couldn't read it all (will come back ). I agree and sympathize with teh OP completely. It is so depressing when something so good in 1985 gets worse over the next 25 years with all the advances in technology computers.

My first MB experience was with a 1981 W123 300D five years ago. I was like wow -- this is the first real car I have ever driven. So you can imagine the high hopes I had for newer mercedes. If the 1981 car is this great, man, what must the new ones be like? Well the 85 SD -- the "better" model I thought seemed cheap and plasticy. I tried an 87 190D and although it ran good, the engine and body seemed even more cheap and unreliable.

Now i just got an 87 TDT. I have high hopes this will be a reliable affordable to own (less than 750,00 a year in maintenance and repairs) . We'll see. It Looks good. Rides awesome -- liked its nimbleness and higher mpg over a W123 wagon and how these power down the road like you are on a track. Those are the advanes over the W123.

But already it is giving me power train problems. I think it has the rising oil level problem. It still has #14 head on it. And coming up a hill , the tranny slipped. (Done this twice now in last month). I barely topped the hill and stopped and put it in 2 and it went. an then went into D and was fine. And the IP leaks motor oil in various places.

My 85 300D has 290,000 and the powertrain is more stable and reliable than this car. MB needs to make they powertrains bullet proof like they did in past and all will be well again. The bells an whistles can all break , but IMO, the engine, tranny, headlights, windshield wipers all need to work for a good 250K minimum without any major problem.

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What Would Rudolph Do?
1975 300D, 1975 240D, 1985 300SD, 1997 300D, 2005 E320 , 2006 Toyota Prius

You should have got more than 74,000 miles out of that cup holder.

Mine has done over 100,000 and it is still good.

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)