I am going to inject this forum with some new issues to discuss, firstly my liberation from the gulag known as law school.

I graduated on May 8. Since then, I have done the following:

1. Started working out again with regularity. I have lost about 5-10 lbs of the 35 I gained when I started this gig. I was once, believe it or not, a runner up Mr. Teenage Missouri (OK, 5th place) and 2nd place Mr. Teenage Chicago, coming in 4th at the Chicago Muscle invitational in between. My graduation picture of me holding the diploma looks like some guy holding a business card.

2. Almost finished with the shower replacement in the rental house I bought next door, which has sat there since February. Signed up a management company, should be rented soon. Thank god-paying utilities on two houses and mortgages, and mowing the yard, and finishing law school and trying to pay for all the law student get out of school extortions (bar prep courses, etc.) has truly sucked and soured me. I almost became a bitter scrooge, arguing with people I work with at a restaraunt (bartender) over dollars and cents as I dealt with a near constant knot in my stomach.

3. Cleaned up my neglected yard. When I bought this house, back when I had more hair and was 35 lbs thinner, my house had a beautiful yard. Landscaped, with lights and all that crap, and a little fountain in the backyard. No more. Now it looks OK but the landscaping is ruined from three years of neglect, no more birds of paradise, and the fountain is ruined. Once I saw the former owner drive by just to reminise (sp?) I guess and I was actually embarrassed for myself. But hey, I'm not a dual income no kids dude working out of my house so screw them anyway. I ended up with 14 big brown bags of leaves, weeds, and miscellaneous natural junk. I'm about 33 1/3% done. It looks so much better, I don't know, like someone lives here?

4. Got my Exploder running better. Something was wrong-it was stalling. I replaced the plug wires except for one I can't reach. 90% improvement. Visited my MB mechanic to set up my water pump replacement and some other stuff on the MB-the stuff I tried to do myself in a moment of heroism before admitting, for the 132nd time, that I suck as a mechanic and should never attempt any mechanical work by myself again. Unless it is plug wires. I can handle 5 out of 6 plug wires any day.

5. Started dating again. First I will say that there are few nice girls in law school. It is a barren place devoid of humanity. I'm exaggerating. Asked two girls out, one said yes, went out with her and we didn't click but you can't win if you don't play, and the date was great anyway.

6. Stopped drinking so often, and I chew my food more. Was it really so bad? YES.

7. Am in the process of paying all the bills I've ignored, like my gas that is about to be shut off, and my dry cleaning bill that somehow became about the size of Missouri's deficit.

8. Also started thinking, when I wake up in the morning, about what I'm going to do that day, instead of just jumping out of bed and carrying out a premeditated "plan of attack", planned way in advance.

What can I say-its a liberating feeling. Just thought I'd share.

Congratulations, Orkrist. That's a huge milestone for you. When the world turns to $hit before your very eyes, you can draw strength from the knowledge that you can work hard for a long term goal, no matter the uncertainty. There's a lot of power in that.

What's next?

B

I plan to start my own law practice. I have an office picked out and should be ready to go when I pass the bar. I take the bar exam in the end of July. I'll post an announcement so if anyone gets busted for speeding in MO you can call on Orkrist, LLC. You know, being an adult is a lot like being a child, but you're bigger and you can do more stuff. I used to set up fantastic car accidents with Matchbox and Hot Wheels cars in my little Tyco city, with fireworks and everything. Now I can put all of this training to work. I'm kidding, sort of.

I'll be bartending for a while too, probably, realistically, another 2 years or so, which is OK with me. The money is really good and I wait on a lot of attorneys and judges, or at least I did until about a month ago when everyone seemed to mysteriously stop spending money.


Other than that, I'll be working my butt off again, but joining what really is a totally cool and unique profession.

Ahhh, to be young again....but if I were young again, God, could I be less stupid this time?

B

I just finished my second year, got great grades, and can't even get a job at the local Gold's Gym. The market sucks, and its annoying to me to see my friends who never went to college (let alone law school) and who have drug problems yet have money to buy new cars and houses while I roll around in my million mile C220 and live in an apartment. I feel like law was a stupid thing to go into.

As far as working out at the gym, I continue to do it throughout school, I have given up everything in life but refuse to give up lifting. And Jiu Jitsu, I wont give that up either.

Anyway, law school sucks and I wish I never went. THere are no jobs. I havent found any for this summer and you know what they say, if you dont work after 2nd year chances are no one will hire you after graduation.

I am too old to live off my parent's money.

DTM FAN: Screw anyone who tells you you can't get a job after graduation if you didn't work your second summer. (You sound like you have a different view of things and a different experience than I do, but law school is a good 70% mythology, with a 10% sprinkling of BS. The rest is a mishmash of property and administrative law). At the same time, I can tell you out of my graduating class, very few have promising jobs. The economy is bad, this is true. Law school is a good choice, though, in the long run. Its a great skill set to develop for one, and secondly it opens up a lot of possibilities. One of my good friends in law school just moved to Montana-they have an attorney shortage there, believe it or not.

Yeah, you can make 70K+/yr as an air conditioning repair man, and a good plumber makes bank, too, relatively speaking. I make a great living bartending just part time. But, none of these things is the same as being a professional and being able to practice law. Sometimes I day dream about the things I can do pro bono for people I know who get into stupid jams with the law, not to mention what you can do for a fee.

One bad thing though about being in law school is that non-legal employers will not take you seriously as a candidate for employment. I'm in that same jam right now. I want to leave the bar I work at for many reasons, but when I talk to restaraunts, especially the more corporate types, I look like someone who might just be around for 6 months or something. Its challenging to frame it in an appealing way to them. Plus, sometimes I really think people don't really want an attorney on the payroll!

If all else fails, all else, work on a political campaign. Maybe you'll end up on a judicial panel somewhere! Seems to work for everyone else.

And hey, would you rather be a temporarally unemployed attorney or some dude with a drug problem, no education but some money to spend, OK, a hot girlfriend (why is this?), and a tricked out 5.0 Mustang? In the next 5 or 10 years you'll be trying to explain to them how they can keep the house and the cars after their bankruptcy you'll be handling at $250/hr.

ork,

can you give me a play by play on how one becomes a lawyer? start from undergrad. just give me the general plot of things.

undergrad-does the major matter?
law school- does it have to be harvard?
what about working the summers?
what's a bar exam? how much are bar prep classes? are these online?
how do you pick your specialty? what's the snootiest? what the bottom of the totempole on the prestige scale?
do you have to join a firm when you graduate?
why are there so many lawyer jokes?
why do they charge by the hour?
do you have to be really smart to get into law school?
do divorce lawyers ever get divorced? (don't answer that)

my knowledge of your profession is limited to reading The Firm about 6 times.

give it to me straight will ya? pm me if you want anonymity.

-Curious Jen (kinda like Curious George)

__________________
Jennifer
90 350sdl

$250/ hour billing sounds cheap for a bankruptcy lawyer, heh. Congratulations.

how can you expect to get paid if your client is bankrupt?

__________________
Jennifer
90 350sdl

Bankruptcy isn't always what it implies. Bankruptcy is merely protection from creditors and doesn't always mean that an individual or a corporation is necessarily broke. Many have the means to repay debt, but not the willingness to do so. There are thousands of bankrupt multi-millionaires who owe multiples of their net worth. Bankruptcy shields their domestic-based assets from the creditors, not to mention assets parked away off shore. Not to stereotype, but there are many folks who are legally or technically bankrupt but continue driving around in their Rolls Royces and Ferraris, dining in the finest restuarants and living in the finest hotels. I am not an attorney, but my wife is an 18 year vetran. She does not specialize in bankruptcy law but certain of her partners that do charge upwards of $400 to $550 per hour, depending on the nature of the assignment. But then, a lot depends on the names attached to the firm.

I want to eventually go to law school. Any good pointersor advice for me? I'm currently a junior in high school. I was considering Dayton, since it's pretty close and a good school. I wanted to do something with business law/maybe tax. I dont want to have to get involved in criminal/bankruptcy/family. I think those can get a little too messy for me.
Thanks
David

__________________
_____________________________________________

2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

_____________________________________________

Can't believe I'm going to do this.

In terms of reality (as in working as a lawyer 20 years later...)

1. Undergraduate degree doesn't make a bit of difference. Trust me on this one. My practice has NOTHING in common with my undergraduate degree (or anything to do with what I studied in law school). Undergraduate grades are important. Tres important.

2. Doesn't have to be Harvard. If you are successful enough as an undergrad to attend Harvard, Yale, Michigan, Chicago, etc. it can help you open some doors, but you have to decide what you want your life to be like after you pass the bar. Also, some schools have better "support" systems than others. I noticed that my friends who attended USC tend to stick together and help each other out. My school wasn't like that.

3. Working summers. Helps if you can do it. At one firm, we ended up hiring one of our people who came first as a secretary, moved on to being a project manager (corporate practice) and then a summer associate. You get an idea what lawyers actually do all day by pretending to do it yourself during the summers.

4. Bar prep classes are very helpful. Do one.

5. Specialty - try to find something related to something which fascinates you. I didn't realize it at the time, but I managed to pick something which suits me to a TEE. If you like sailing, be a maritime lawyer; if the stock market fascinates you, do mergers and acquisitions. The lowest form of lawyer is an unethical one, the highest form is a thoughtful, ethical one who also manages to maintain a life outside of work. Specialty doesn't matter.

6. You don't have to join a firm upon graduation. Good luck getting malpractice insurance, though. Or clients in your chosen field.

7. Lawyer jokes abound because lawyers make people nervous. The only time most people interact professionally with lawyers are times they'd rather be doing something else, like getting teeth pulled. Some civil dispute, a criminal matter, drafting a will or probating one, attempting to understand legal documents. For people who interact with us all the time (corporate types, for example), it's no big deal. Why are there so many doctor/dentist jokes? Same reason.

8. We charge by the hour because our time is valuable, we assume risk in representing clients for which we deserve compensation and in some instances, there's just no telling how long it's going to take to get something resolved. Prices are market driven. Some of our firm's attorneys charge and are paid north of $450 an hour, some less, depending upon experience. My practice is different - I charge a fixed fee. Most of the time the fee is well in excess of what the average American makes in a year, but I'm paid by investment banks and municipalities, not individuals, and I assume (or my firm assumes) risks associated with multi-million dollar deals.

I've also been divorced twice, have very little hair left, exercise sporadically and live at the office.

Good luck.

__________________
David

His:
2003 Dodge Durango SLT
2002 BMW E39 530i Sport
1988 Mercedes 300TE
Hers:
2003 Chevrolet Suburban
1999 E430

dtanesq's comments were right on the money. (I'm also a 20+ year lawyer) Here's some additional thoghts.

He's right that undergraduate major doesn't matter. What I do as a lawyer has nothing to do with my major or what I took in law school. Rather, it builds on what I did before law school (aviation).

In addition to the importance of undergraduate grades, there is also the LSAT (sort of an SAT for law school) Higher score=better choices of law schools. Take a prep course, it's money well spent.

Do you have to go to Harvard. No! I didn't and from my class in law school there are three state governors, one US senator, at least two federal judges, and many other very successfull folks. Law schools are very different so find one that's right for you. Look at the culture of the school, what they might specialize in, etc. For example, if you wanted to be a sole practicioner in a small to medium size town, you'd want a different shool from someone who has their sights set on a big firm in NYC.

Just make sure the school you select is accredited by the ABA. Some states (CA) permit unaccredited schools but going to one will limit where you can practice after you graduate (most states will only license graduates of accredited schools).

Bottom line: Find some schools you like, get accepted, and then do well. Do that and you'll be fine.

I'd be glad to provide further advice if you want. Feel free to PM.

I would like to do it in a medium sized city. Definitely not NYC or similar. What kind of law do you practice exactly? Do you belong to a firm or do you do it on your own? You an PM me if you'd like, I didn't know if this would be appropriate.
Thanks
David

__________________
_____________________________________________

2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

_____________________________________________

Here's the million dollar idea for you young lawyers.

With Credit and Insurance scores quickly becoming a part of our everyday life and something like 60% of the credit reports having negative inaccuracies people are incurring damages left and right.

I for one just found out I was not receiving a 25% insurance discount because of an inaccuracy on my insurance credit report, the inaccuracy was corrected and the company refunded the difference.

There are much bigger damages that most people just blow off. The biggest ones are people who missed an investment opportunity because of an inaccuracy that could not be fixed in time.

Thank me when your a millionaire.