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  #16  
Old 05-31-2004, 06:58 PM
KirkVining's Avatar
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Ya'll come met GW's biggest financial contributor in Texas now, ya hear!

http://www.txpeer.org/toxictour/pilgrim.html

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  #17  
Old 05-31-2004, 07:02 PM
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Have a good drink of water while your here too

Of course, don't take my word for it, these are just the facts:

http://graysonco.texoma.net/Democrat/governor_george_w.htm

Here's my favorite Fun Texas Fact:

"A third of the Texas rivers and streams probably violate federal water quality standards, though no one is certain because the state declines to test them all."
League of Conservation Voters and The Dallas Morning News, April 12, 2000
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  #18  
Old 05-31-2004, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Botnst
...you'll notice a whole bunch of outliers way off the trend line.
Thanks for this thread, Botnst! I'm learning a lot from it.

I would think that these "outliers" could be some of the numbers that those on either side of the issue could use to support some of their startling comments. That's why it's so important, like you suggested, to look at the raw data-- free from someone or some orgainzation's agenda.
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  #19  
Old 06-01-2004, 12:56 PM
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Then you should move to Houston.
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  #20  
Old 06-01-2004, 07:56 PM
resqguy
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I'm sure everyone is aware that the EPA was started under the Nixon administration, but he was hardly a conservative.

What I love is that the so called "experts" on the environment are lawyers that ride around in limos. They are considered experts because they sue business for money. They have probably never pitched a tent or dropped a hook into a stream their whole life.

Too many times the environment is used as a political weapon by those that believe that the only way to protect the environment is for Government to take more and more land away from private use. As a strong conservative, I believe we have a moral imperative to protect the environment. My family has been into organic farming since the 60s.

To say that one ideology is for the environment and another is against it is irresponsible. There is plenty of agreement about the problem, but there needs to be more openmindedness about the solutions.
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  #21  
Old 06-01-2004, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by resqguy
I'm sure everyone is aware that the EPA was started under the Nixon administration, but he was hardly a conservative.

What I love is that the so called "experts" on the environment are lawyers that ride around in limos. They are considered experts because they sue business for money. They have probably never pitched a tent or dropped a hook into a stream their whole life.

Too many times the environment is used as a political weapon by those that believe that the only way to protect the environment is for Government to take more and more land away from private use. As a strong conservative, I believe we have a moral imperative to protect the environment. My family has been into organic farming since the 60s.

To say that one ideology is for the environment and another is against it is irresponsible. There is plenty of agreement about the problem, but there needs to be more openmindedness about the solutions.
I agree with a lot of what you say, and I wish there were more people like you. Here in Texas, private land owners are not the problem when it comes to environmetall devastation. Most, if not all, of the family farm people I've known in my lifetime have the same values you express. Again, here in Texas, corporate farmers and mining interests are the ones who seem to care less about the land. The chicken industry in particular has gotten so bad they literally threaten the water supplies of large cities and towns in East Texas. A lot of everyday farmers and ranchers are as pissed off about it as the tree huggers are. Hopefully we can get past the labels and come up with some kind of sensible land use stategy.
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  #22  
Old 06-02-2004, 11:26 AM
resqguy
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I agree with a lot of what you say, and I wish there were more people like you.
Wow, thanks for that. I half expected to get flamed.

I hope that the label of anti-environmental gets taken from the conservative ideology. Illegal dumping or any violation of environmental laws should be enforced strictly. I think everyone would agree with that.

Here are more "solutions" that make conservatives nervous:
Government telling people what cars they can drive.
Government keeping energy producing companies from upgrading their equipment to increase efficiency.
Government buying up private land to prevent energy production.
Government telling auto manufacturers how many cars they can produce at a particular MPG rating.
People expecting the Government to invent new ways for energy usage.

Just because conservatives question these solutions doesn't mean that they don't agree with the problems.
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  #23  
Old 05-02-2005, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Leading scientific journals 'are censoring debate on global warming'
By Robert Matthews
(Filed: 01/05/2005)

Two of the world's leading scientific journals have come under fire from researchers for refusing to publish papers which challenge fashionable wisdom over global warming.

A British authority on natural catastrophes who disputed whether climatologists really agree that the Earth is getting warmer because of human activity, says his work was rejected by the American publication, Science, on the flimsiest of grounds.

Radcliffe on Sour power station with Dr Benny Peiser (inset). He disagrees with the pro-global warming line

A separate team of climate scientists, which was regularly used by Science and the journal Nature to review papers on the progress of global warming, said it was dropped after attempting to publish its own research which raised doubts over the issue.

The controversy follows the publication by Science in December of a paper which claimed to have demonstrated complete agreement among climate experts, not only that global warming is a genuine phenomenon, but also that mankind is to blame.

The author of the research, Dr Naomi Oreskes, of the University of California, analysed almost 1,000 papers on the subject published since the early 1990s, and concluded that 75 per cent of them either explicitly or implicitly backed the consensus view, while none directly dissented from it.

Dr Oreskes's study is now routinely cited by those demanding action on climate change, including the Royal Society and Prof Sir David King, the Government's chief scientific adviser.

However, her unequivocal conclusions immediately raised suspicions among other academics, who knew of many papers that dissented from the pro-global warming line.

They included Dr Benny Peiser, a senior lecturer in the science faculty at Liverpool John Moores University, who decided to conduct his own analysis of the same set of 1,000 documents - and concluded that only one third backed the consensus view, while only one per cent did so explicitly.

Dr Peiser submitted his findings to Science in January, and was asked to edit his paper for publication - but has now been told that his results have been rejected on the grounds that the points he make had been "widely dispersed on the internet".

Dr Peiser insists that he has kept his findings strictly confidential. "It is simply not true that they have appeared elsewhere already," he said.

A spokesman for Science said Dr Peiser's research had been rejected "for a variety of reasons", adding: "The information in the letter was not perceived to be novel."

Dr Peiser rejected this: "As the results from my analysis refuted the original claims, I believe Science has a duty to publish them."

Dr Peiser is not the only academic to have had work turned down which criticises the findings of Dr Oreskes's study. Prof Dennis Bray, of the GKSS National Research Centre in Geesthacht, Germany, submitted results from an international study showing that fewer than one in 10 climate scientists believed that climate change is principally caused by human activity.

As with Dr Peiser's study, Science refused to publish his rebuttal. Prof Bray told The Telegraph: "They said it didn't fit with what they were intending to publish."

Prof Roy Spencer, at the University of Alabama, a leading authority on satellite measurements of global temperatures, told The Telegraph: "It's pretty clear that the editorial board of Science is more interested in promoting papers that are pro-global warming. It's the news value that is most important."

He said that after his own team produced research casting doubt on man-made global warming, they were no longer sent papers by Nature and Science for review - despite being acknowledged as world leaders in the field.

As a result, says Prof Spencer, flawed research is finding its way into the leading journals, while attempts to get rebuttals published fail. "Other scientists have had the same experience", he said. "The journals have a small set of reviewers who are pro-global warming."

Concern about bias within climate research has spread to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, whose findings are widely cited by those calling for drastic action on global warming.

In January, Dr Chris Landsea, an expert on hurricanes with the United States National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration, resigned from the IPCC, claiming that it was "motivated by pre-conceived agendas" and was "scientifically unsound".

A spokesman for Science denied any bias against sceptics of man-made global warming. "You will find in our letters that there is a wide range of opinion," she said. "We certainly seek to cover dissenting views."

Dr Philip Campbell, the editor-in-chief of Nature, said that the journal was always happy to publish papers that go against perceived wisdom, as long as they are of acceptable scientific quality.

"The idea that we would conspire to suppress science that undermines the idea of anthropogenic climate change is both false and utterly naive about what makes journals thrive," he said.

Dr Peiser said the stifling of dissent and preoccupation with doomsday scenarios is bringing climate research into disrepute. "There is a fear that any doubt will be used by politicians to avoid action," he said. "But if political considerations dictate what gets published, it's all over for science."














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Liberals don't care about the facts....they only get in the way of their agenda....They want to believe the earth has always had a stabile temprature...and if its not its somehow our fault..........basicly its the same people who are part of the Flat Earth society.

There is nothing wrong with being eviromentally aware.....but there is when you go overboard by ignoring facts when they don't agree with your agenda.
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Last edited by boneheaddoctor; 05-02-2005 at 01:31 PM.
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  #24  
Old 05-02-2005, 02:58 PM
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my understanding of current dogma is that the conservatives believe that the end times (rapture) will come before we do any serious harm to the enviroment.

Sort of a "drive it like you stole it because Jesus is coming" attitude.

I can't make stuff like this up.
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  #25  
Old 05-02-2005, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koop
my understanding of current dogma is that the conservatives believe that the end times (rapture) will come before we do any serious harm to the enviroment.

Sort of a "drive it like you stole it because Jesus is coming" attitude.

I can't make stuff like this up.
Its possible....several of the ex-members made stuff like that up all the time.
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  #26  
Old 05-02-2005, 03:38 PM
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I'm rather conservative and I'm all for lower pollution, as long at it makes economic sense, I.E. don't drive business out of the country because higher costs.

The environment is not a religion for me at all, as it is some.

God made us smart enough to use the Earth's resources for our own benefit.

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