[QUOTE] PHAEDRUS242 Ok, you're a soccer mom, bend over.[QUOTE]

I have seen some nice soccer moms therefore, where do I sign up to be one of these tax collectors?

Iggy

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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

2006 - Suzuki Gran Vitara (2.0 L fully equipped) Like this car so far except for trying to put on the seatbelt.
1988 - 190e - 2.3L - 172K miles (It now belongs to the exwife)
1999 - Chevy Blazer LS Fully Equiped - killed it June 2006
2001 - Honda Civic EX - 68K miles (sold June 2004)
1963 - 220S - Dual Carb 6 cyl. (sold)
1994 - Yamaha WaveRaider (fun to ride)

LOL - ain't that the truth.

Keep in mind too that for the majority of soccer moms $5/gallon gasoline would not effect them because they just put it on the credit card.

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Jim

How 'bout you "fuzzy-wuzzy environmentalists" let us drill for some more of our OWN oil?! Oil that we know is there, but we currently can't touch because it might disturb a couple of grazing caribou!

Owners of large SUVs and other "gas-guzzlers" ALREADY pay a higher tax. The initial price of the vehicle was higher, which means higer sales tax, and the fuel mileage is lower, which means they pay more fuel taxes.

Yeah, that's what we need!,.,,,,MORE utterly ridiculous IRS tax code! 58,000+ pages just isn't enough!

Mike

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1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
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1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
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1985 300TD
270,000 miles
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1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

Sooner or later we have got to see the solution is not just trying to drill our way out of our problems. Most reports say their isn't that much oil there and the oil would take a decade to get to market any way. We need to start looking at permenant solutions. Personally, if I was going to pick on the fuzzy wuzzies, it would in nuclear power arena. We need a sensible nuclear power program, to allevaite global warning and perhaps create an electric car alternative.

If the SUVs owners are paying a high tax, it can't be too bad because their are a zillion of them on the road. They also are not only exempt from guzzler taxes, they also are allowed to pollute more because they are "trucks". As I sit in Houston traffic surrounded by thousands of the beasts, I can only wonder if the one driver vehicles before me where actually compact cars, if the price of gas would be a problem. When you combine the weight factor, the lack of areodynamics and the big engines, these things are just too wasteful. Lets just face up to it and do what ever we can to get rid of as many as we can for the sake of our country.

$1000 gas guzzler tax at initial purchase should be just the beginning. I'm for a $1000 every year of ownership, and this tax burden passes to every subsequent owner. Cars, SUVs, whatever. We have to get off Oil's tit.
Mark

I'm all for a fuel tax, but only if the extra revenue goes into something worthwhile -- research for better fuel methods, like hydrogen -- and isn't squandered by the government in typical fashion.

Anything to help lower the number of SUV's on the road is good. I'm all for trucks, etc, especially since we used to haul ton after ton of firewood in pickup trucks while growing up. Over here, though, I almost never see a truck or SUV hauling anything. Also, something tells me that if I were to look underneath them, I wouldn't see any off-road dirt. Meanwhile, they block vision, pollute the environment, and breed bad driving. Nuts, now I'm thinking a tax would be good even if our government did squander the revenue...

All taxes go into general revenue. They may be "earmarked" for certain things, but its bogus bookkeeping. Like SSI is bogus. Every dime that Treasury takes in is applied against spendinga nd the difference goes to the national debt, usually as deficit spending. The current administration has been spending money like a drunken sailor on whores (don't ask me how I know...). If you give the gov a dime more, it will spend eleven cents. Thats a fact of the current adminstration.

But we have a huge economy and could easily pay off the debt pretty quickly if we quit expanding the ssize of gov. Just Zero growth is all I ask. By so doing, we would decrease the rate of expansion by the inflation rate plus expansion of the economy (which increases tax receipts).

This worked great in the '90's when a parsimonious Congress fought tooth and nail to kill selected programs while the administration tried to protect its own and attack Congresses programs. The result was very slow expansion of gov.

The current adminstration seems to be on the Reagan trajectory: cut spending and refuse to raise taxes, forcing Congress to either continually raise the debt ceiling or begin addressing the deficit.

The problem with this method (which worked for Reagan, through Bush, and culminating with Clinton) is that the gov is not divided. One party is in majority. So Bush cannot attack Congress with the devastating effect that Reagan and Clinton enjoyed.

So, what I don't like about a increase in fuel tax are two things:

1. It differentially and punatively affects the working poor. (I discussed this at the beginning of this thread.)
2. It will give Congress even more money to mis-spend.
3. It is antithetical to the principles of free-market capitalism. Let the market set the price, let the investor suffer the consequences or reap the reward of their own risk.

B

Prior to reading this post,I was thinking that all the money goes into the same pot. so that would be a disastor if not placed into a separate fund, which will not be used used for something else other than research/exploration of our own oil reserves and sources of reneable energy.

The market will dictate that we change our habits one way or another, if gas were to drop, look out, the proliferation of SUV will skyrocket. If it drops, WE WILL BE FORCED TO ADJUST OUR DRIVING HABITS.

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Enough about me, how are you doing?

That's happening now. Strike up a conversation with one of those soccer moms and some will tell you that the only way to fill up is with a cc.

That's not good for the economy either.

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Enough about me, how are you doing?

On the one hand we have troops in the Middle East dying so that we can "promote" democracy in a region of the world that coincidentally has the single largest supply of oil on the planet, on the other hand we have our government AT THE VERY SAME TIME!? granting huge (like $24 Thousand in the FIRST YEAR) tax breaks to buyers of the biggest, gas guzzling SUV's.
Is there anyone out there besides me that thinks this is LUNACY?
A gas guzzler tax on the purchase of NEW vehicles would drastically cut the sale of these vehicles to those that truly needed a Ford Excursion/Chevy Suburban OR incentivise the development of vehicles that could achieve the required mileage to avoid the tax.
If you truly NEED to transport the soccer team there exist several alternatives to a 10 MPG SUV. Remember the minivan was created to answer the need to replace the GAS guzzling station wagons of the 70's.
As to what is done with the money, it should be earmarked for development of technologies specifically designed to DECREASE our dependence on oil. The ONLY way it could be transferred into the general fund would be through a national referendum voted on by the people. It's the only way "We The People" can take our destiny away from the bastard politicians and put it back in our hands.
Gotta go, the feds are knocking on my door.

Lots of interesting comments.

I am for a tax because the only thing that matters to most of us enough to modify our behavior is money, like meat matters to my dog. When I want to teach my dog a new trick I use meat as the reward when he does the trick and scold him when he doesn't with the result that he learns real fast if he understands the meat is there to be earned. If I use a banana as a reward, the effect is lost because he would starve to death before he would eat a banana. If I only beat him when he makes mistakes he gets depressed and doesn't learn anything.

We need to learn some new driving habits. The tax taken in on guzzling habits should be made available to those buying cars getting over the minimum guzzler limit, with higher mileage cars getting a greater benefit. That way we can reward good behavior and punish bad behavior with money. Gas usage per person will decrease until the minimum mileage limit is reached and no more tax is collected. At that point you raise the minimum mileage number and start anew. Got to have that hypothesis, got to define that behavior you want to modify, got to show how the law will bring about the behavior modification, and got to show how the effect will be monitored.

As for drilling for more oil in the US, I think we should establish as a national policy that that can never happen until there is not a drop of readily accessible oil in the Mid East. Suck their resource dry, then pump ours. Pay through the nose for it until it is gone. Then use ours. In short order they will go broke and have no money to fund their Jihads. Develop and control access to the technology to go after the deeper or otherwise harder to reach reserves and only use it in the Mid East under strict terms and conditions. The stuff self destructs if the terms are violated. Remember, it is a long term strategy you want. Go ahead and let them think they won for the next 50 years. Wait them out and then pump ours. We want to win the long term struggle, not this week's battle over the price of a barrel of oil!

Think long term. Define a strategy that ensures America will be great when our great grandchildren are grandparents. Get a grip. Jim

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Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

First off, who the bloody hell are you to tell me what I can and cant drive? What I drive is my business and my choice. Its not KirkVining's, not the State of Arkansas', and it sure as hell isnt the business of the federal government. This is why I dont live in that liberal hellhole known as the People's Republik of Kalifornia. I plan on keeping the idiotarians out of my life as much as possible, thank you very much.

Excuse me? Are you going to ban the only access I had to a car at a young age, as well as several thousand other people? Are you going to ban my $600 Buick because its old? How about "Screw you and the EPA-approved horse you rode in on?" How does that sound, hmm? How many people cant afford $10-15k cars? A $600 car that needs $200 for tip-top running and $2000 a year in gas (tank a week) is far cheaper than one that costs twice someone's yearly income (mine), especially those with families to feed.

If you want to tax ownership of something, do it at a flat rate, like vehicle taxes are now. But I will be DAMNED if I will pay a tax because you or some asshat in Washington doesnt like how old my car is. I cant honestly believe I am reading the words of a self-professed liberal say that he wants to impement policy that will make HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF POOR PEOPLE car-less, which would mean even more uneducated kids, hungry kids because mommy and daddy cant go to work, and are staring at a $15,000 bill just to leave the house. How will the welfare moms and the poverty dads who make $15,000 a year to support their family of 4 be able to afford their new or newish fuel-efficient vehicle when every dime they have is tied up in bills or food budgets? I know exactly how this is. My dad made $8000 a year not 15years ago, and fed a family of 4 on it. With 2 vehicles that both got barely 20mpg off the showroom floor. If this were to actually happen, the cars of the poor would be illegal, the people who couldnt afford to drive anything else would be ticketed or arrested, and be even worse off than they were immedeatly following the tax. sKerry's idea for a 50cent per gallon tax was better than this, and it sucked shi7!.


Do I agree with tax incentives for any vehicle? No. Hell, all I want is a simple sales tax. None of this other BS.

PS: Mentioning Carter is no way to win over conservatives. Helpful hints and all...

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http://comp.uark.edu/~dmgill/signature.jpg

First off, in World War I and II, the governemt was telling people what they could and could not eat, never mind drive. I am saying that we are in a war, and one of the chief weapons our enemies have to use against us is our dependence on foriegn oil. War requires sacrifice. For the sake of this war, one of those sacrifices just might have to be that $500 Buick land barge. If the consideration is what you perfer to drive vs the defense of the country, then the national defense is going to win out. In essence I am asking, who the hell are you to ask me to support you and your gas guzzler with blood and money ? If we remain dependent on foriegn oil, we have to give the lives of our sons and daughters and our tax dollars in the future so people can continue to drive gas hogs. Better you get rid of your gas hog instead of me giving the army one of my kids. I as a citizen, could have cared less what you drove when gas was cheap and plentiful. Now that procuring the copious amounts of gas used by the old Olds will require us to pay the price outlined above, I and every other citiizen now have a vested right in what you drive. It has become a national security issue. Each gallon of gas is now paid for not only at the pump, but at the tax office as well, by all of us who are going to be required more and more to support the ever larger military establishments that wil be required to get the stuff. The most direct tool a government has to discourage the use of something is a tax. Heavy taxes need to be put on these vehicles so that an alternative way to power them can be encouraged to develop or the use of them can come to an end. As far as poor people and cars go, there's plenty of inexpensive small cars out there. We're no longer living in the age when the only cheap cars out there are big GM gas hogs. They're gone now. If a person has an overwelming compulsion to own a guzzler, they should simply get the money to pay for what is inevitably going to be a luxury any way - driving a large fuel wasting internal-combustion powered automobile.

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Enough about me, how are you doing?

That was classic!

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman