Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-08-2004, 11:20 PM
KirkVining's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,303
Out of Control Federal Spending

IT's about time someone in Congress got a pair:


WASHINGTON — Four dissident Republican senators have stalled the budget process, refusing to go along with Republican leadership on a non-binding, fiscal year 2005 $2.4 trillion budget blueprint, and insisting that Congress take a more fiscally responsible approach.

They say they are not only staying true to their long-held political beliefs, but also those of the Republican Party, suggesting such GOP icons as Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater also would have insisted on fiscal responsibility.

"I am a proud Republican. I'm a Barry Goldwater Republican. I revere Ronald Reagan and his party of limited government. Sadly, that party is no longer. The current version of the Republican Party is engaged in an outrageous spending binge and they're being steadied and encouraged by the Democrats," Sen. John McCain of Arizona said last month at the Progressive Policy Institute (search).

"It used to be understood that no one ever voted for a Democrat to be a champion of fiscal responsibility. But at this point, is there a party to take up that worthy cause?" McCain said.

McCain, who described America's fiscal future as "bleak" because of a projected deficit of $521 billion, is joined by Republican Senators Lincoln Chafee (search) of Rhode Island, and Olympia Snowe (search) and Susan Collins (search) of Maine in holding out support for next year's spending plan.

"Senator Snowe steadfastly believes that we need to bring discipline back to the budget process, and that means bringing discipline back to both sides of the ledger: spending and taxes," Snowe Spokeswoman Antonia Ferrier told Foxnews.com.

Resistance by the four Republicans leaves the Senate GOP two votes short of passing the measure. House and Senate GOP leaders warn that their unwillingness to support the bill will force the Republican Party and the American people to pay the price.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (search), R-Tenn., and his lieutenants may also be exposed to charges that they are incapable of governing effectively if they cannot bring the four in line.

The renegades insist that the budget include a five-year pay-as-you-go provision rather than the one-year provision currently in the legislation. Under pay-as-you-go (search), if any future tax cut is to be approved, spending would also have to be limited so that there would be no net impact on the deficit.

Snowe is a major supporter of tax cuts, but not "at the expense of the future health of our nation," Ferrier said, referring to the large deficits that have been racked up in the past few years.

The pay-as-you-go requirement would seriously limit the tax-cutting agenda of both the president and congressional Republicans. The provision could be ignored if 60 of the 100 senators voted to do so, but with such a close margin in the 51-48-1 Senate, Republicans have not been able to muster a simple majority to pass the overall bill, much less the supermajority needed to bypass the pay-as-you-go measure.

Senate Republican leadership offices did not return calls for comment about the effort to sway moderates or whether a budget vote would be coming soon. Privately, other Senate aides said no vote is imminent because the Republican leadership does not yet have the numbers to prevail.

President Bush has made cutting taxes a hallmark of his administration, believing that lower taxes, not balanced budgets, are a better way to stimulate the economy. The refusal of four senators from his party to support this initiative may signify a weakening of his influence on Capitol Hill that coincides with a drop in poll numbers, say some political observers.

"Surveys have shown recently that voters trust Democrats more than Republicans in reducing the deficit. They've lost credibility in terms of fighting waste and reducing the deficit," Citizens Against Government Waste (search) President Tom Schatz told Foxnews.com.

"I think from the political standpoint it gives Democrats another argument: 'Why should the Republicans be in charge? They can't even pass a budget, and they have the White House and Congress,'" Schatz said.

Bush has met privately with some senators in an effort to push the budget forward. White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said last month that the president will "urge the Senate to pass that budget because it will make sure that we don't raise taxes, and that we do meet our nation's priorities. And so we will continue to work closely with Congress. But we urge the Senate to pass it."

Ferrier, Snowe's spokeswoman, said the president's lower poll numbers have nothing to do with the senator's position. While Snowe continues to strongly back tax cuts, she could not accept them without greater fiscal responsibility.

"She greatly respects the president, and certainly understands their perspective. This is a reflection of her historical stand," Ferrier said.

A bigger issue for the GOP might be that many voters now believe Democrats would be better suited to write up and pass budgets. GOP leaders pledged to wrap up the budget process by April 15 to show how well they could govern.

"We're seeing more and more of a do-nothing Senate, even though the priorities of the country are clear," said Sarah Feinberg, spokeswoman for Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle (search), D-S.D., who added that Daschle is still hopeful that a budget will go through.

Feinberg said jobs and the economy, along with the budget, are of greatest concern to Americans.

"What the Republican leadership has failed to do is act on these priorities, and I think they're going to be held accountable for that in November."

Though the budget sets targets for appropriations bills, even without a budget outline, appropriations bills can be passed. But having a budget in place forces the Senate to follow special procedures to expedite tax and appropriations legislation. Without a budget, the Senate would also have to go through the politically charged ordeal of raising the debt ceiling. If a budget were passed, that would be unnecessary.

On May 19, the House narrowly passed its budget by a vote of 216 to 213. After the vote, House Speaker Dennis Hastert (search), R-Illinois, said, “To those who don’t like this budget, I say this is the most fiscally responsible budget conference report we have considered on the House floor since I have been in the Congress. ... We want to keep the tax cuts in place — to keep more people working, to keep the economy growing, to keep America strong, and to win this war against terror. That is why we need to pass this budget."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122182,00.html
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-09-2004, 07:05 AM
MedMech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I don't know if Dubbya was trying to avoid a budget showdown or what he's spending it like a drunk women with a purse full of credit cards or me.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-09-2004, 08:55 AM
MedMech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Botnst
Typical gov policy: be all things to all people at taxpayers expense.

Any perceived difference between Repos and Demos to the taxpayer is a fantasy. They differ only on how they disburse your money. Both groups have their favorite causes and different heards of swine feeding at the trough.

Bot
Yip, I call it bang for the buck.

20 Mill for a fighter jet has a much greater net benefit to the country than a art gallery.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-09-2004, 09:03 AM
MedMech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Botnst
Typical gov policy: be all things to all people at taxpayers expense.

Any perceived difference between Repos and Demos to the taxpayer is a fantasy. They differ only on how they disburse your money. Both groups have their favorite causes and different heards of swine feeding at the trough.

Bot
Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.
- Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-09-2004, 09:26 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: North America
Posts: 552
Quote:
Republican Party, suggesting such GOP icons as Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater also would have insisted on fiscal responsibility.
That's a funny comment. Reagan put us in debt more than any president since George Washington and that's combined. He was a "trickle down" president.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-09-2004, 09:36 AM
KirkVining's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,303
Quote:
Originally posted by Botnst
Typical gov policy: be all things to all people at taxpayers expense.

Any perceived difference between Repos and Demos to the taxpayer is a fantasy. They differ only on how they disburse your money. Both groups have their favorite causes and different heards of swine feeding at the trough.

Bot
The Republicans, who came into power under their "Contract for America" claiming they were fiscal conservatives, are spending beyond madness. And they are handing out just as many art galleries as the Demos did. It goes on and on. At the same time, they saddled all of us with interest payments as they undercut the governments ability to collect revenue by handing out tax cuts to their favorite groups and no-bid contracts to their favorite companies.

This isn't fiscal policy, its wholesale theft. They hand out pork like there is no tomorrow, and Bush signs the spending bills. My favorite example is the "Prison Museum" in Huntsville. I've never seen a car in their parking lot , except for the same one parked out front, which is probably driven by the curator, making 40k a year for sitting on his ass all day. I know the last thing I would like to tour is some depressing place dedicated to how people are locked up. And then there is the "Transportation Museum" in the middle of nowhere in PA, just happens to be in the district of the chairman of the Congressional comittee that appropriates for roads. McCain routinally brings that one up, it costs 100s of millions and gets about 4 vistors a month.

If you want to do something about it, go to senate.gov and email your senators, asking them to support McCain. Enough is enough.

It would also be nice if someone would explain to me, if we have no military competition, why we need a new 20 milllion$ fighter? Who exactly are we keeping up with, the Bolivians? Or tell me why we spend billions on bases in Europe, when the Russians are now our friends? My nephew in the service tells me getting assigned to Germany is now the military equivelent of winning the lottery, with no enemy to fight, it amounts to a long taxpayer financed European vacation, where one's day are spent hanging around polishing unneeded 20 million dollar fighters, and the rest of the time chasing frauliens and beer.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-09-2004, 09:36 AM
MedMech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Did we cut tax rates? Yep.
Did we increase the debt? Yep.
Are we paying interest today on the debt we added back then? Yep.
Did the Soviets have a plan for initiating a "winnable" thermonuclear war? Yep.
Did we beef up defense and improve our national security? Yep.
Did the Soviets start a thermonuclear war? Nope.
Did the economy grow faster, uninterrupted by a thermonuclear war? Yep.
Did tax receipts grow in tandem with the economy? Yep.
Did tax receipts grow more than enough to cover interest payment growth? Yep.
Are we wealthier today than we would have been otherwise? Yep.

and last but not least:
Does the Soviet Union, Iron Curtain, or Berlin Wall exist any more? Nope.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-09-2004, 02:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: North America
Posts: 552
http://www.lafn.org/politics/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-09-2004, 04:04 PM
resqguy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Chafee, Snowe, and Collins are all RINO (in name only) and wouldn't be saying a word if the same budget was being spent on their pet projects. If you think this bunch would ever lead a movement to reduce Government spending in non-defense areas I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

I believe McCain is the only one of the bunch that has been consistant on this issue.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-09-2004, 06:09 PM
AndrewK
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by resqguy
Chafee, Snowe, and Collins are all RINO (in name only)
Sort of like Zell Miller is a DINO? :p

Actually MedMech I'd say the art gallery would do better for the country. There is no enemy for the $20M fighter jet to fight, but a more cultured population would certainly be desirable...

Not to pick on you, but what jet is 20 million dollars? I was reading about the F-22 in the local Atlanta paper (since its built right here by Lockheed Martin), and that program is the essence of government waste. The Congress would not cancel it despite having its purpose eliminiated by the end of the Cold War and multiple cost overruns. The ATF contract was put out in 1984, the first squadron will deploy in 2005, the cost: $18.6 billion. (or something like 250 million per plane)

18.6 billion dollars and it is "replacing" an aircraft that is currently superior to anything else in the world. How foolish is that?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-09-2004, 06:13 PM
KirkVining's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,303
Quote:
Originally posted by Botnst
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't spending bills originate in the house of Representatives? Which party was in the majority in the House?

B
Not the same one that had the veto power in the White House.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-09-2004, 07:32 PM
Zeitgeist's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 2,304
...it's interesting to note that McCain was speaking at the inappropriately named Progressive Policy Institute, which is a DLC think tank. Not sure if it means anything, but I just thought it was interesting. Conservative Dems or moderate Reps, it doesn't make much difference. The two parties are finallizing the process of morphing into one big duopoly. Voting will soon become a perfunctory activity with only a vestigial relation to democracy...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-09-2004, 07:32 PM
Plantman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Miami
Posts: 2,133
Quote:
Originally posted by MedMech
Did we cut tax rates? Yep.
Did we increase the debt? Yep.
Are we paying interest today on the debt we added back then? Yep.
Did the Soviets have a plan for initiating a "winnable" thermonuclear war? Yep.
Did we beef up defense and improve our national security? Yep.
Did the Soviets start a thermonuclear war? Nope.
Did the economy grow faster, uninterrupted by a thermonuclear war? Yep.
Did tax receipts grow in tandem with the economy? Yep.
Did tax receipts grow more than enough to cover interest payment growth? Yep.
Are we wealthier today than we would have been otherwise? Yep.

and last but not least:
Does the Soviet Union, Iron Curtain, or Berlin Wall exist any more? Nope.
I don't agree/disagee with anything you have to say.........just keep the posts/replies coming so I can check out the bouncing titties.....
__________________
Enough about me, how are you doing?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-09-2004, 08:09 PM
KirkVining's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,303
Quote:
Originally posted by Botnst
We can always through art supplies at Bin Laden. That'll show him.

Bot
Well, fighter planes didn't seem to do much good. You might as well throw paint brushes over the Pakistani border if your not going to commit the troops.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-09-2004, 08:26 PM
Botnst's Avatar
What knockers!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: There castle.
Posts: 35,707
Quote:
Originally posted by KirkVining
Well, fighter planes didn't seem to do much good. You might as well throw paint brushes over the Pakistani border if your not going to commit the troops.
Buy wrenches for turning nuts and bolts, buy screwdrivers for turning screws.
__________________
'Government is like a baby:
An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and
no sense of responsibility at the other'
- Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page