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  #1  
Old 06-15-2004, 05:25 PM
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Was Spain's Withdrawal Medal-worthy?...

Has Spain been getting military advice from France?

_______________________________

Generals don't usually get medals for organizing a retreat.

But in Spain they do, or at least the defense minister did. Jose Bono was recently given a medal for the role he played in pulling Spanish troops out of Iraq.

As you may remember, Spain withdrew its troops from Iraq shortly after Al Qaeda killed nearly 200 people in Madrid. The terrorist bombings were timed to affect Spanish elections and many say they did, throwing out the party that supported the coalition in Iraq and bringing in the Socialists, who called for immediate withdrawal.

The Cross of Military Merit, which Defense Minister Bono was to receive for organizing the retreat of Spanish forces, entitles the recipient to wear a white sash and be addressed as, "Your most excellent lordship."

But Mr. Bono apparently won't get his sash.

The ruckus over his award intensified after a newspaper reported that Mr. Bono had arranged for the medal ceremony himself and had pressured cabinet members who opposed the decoration.


Last week, Mr. Bono returned the medal and the prime minister praised his defense minister as a man of "much sensibility."


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122742,00.html

_________________________________

...What a joke....



Mike
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  #2  
Old 06-15-2004, 05:28 PM
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Gads. I think they did us a favor by pulling out (out of the way, that is )
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  #3  
Old 06-15-2004, 07:59 PM
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Is Franco still dead?
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  #4  
Old 06-15-2004, 09:54 PM
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Cowards.
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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-Thomas Jefferson
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  #5  
Old 06-15-2004, 10:21 PM
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The Spanish government was doing what a democracy is supposed to do - executing the wishes of its people. The Spanish people, in a huge majority, wanted Spain out of Iraq. A majority of them were against going into Iraq in the first place. The same thng goes for France. The French populace wanted nothing to do with an invasion of Iraq. The French government expressed those sentiments in the Security Council, to our great displeasure. In other words, our government would be much happier if other democracies simply went against the wishes of its people and did what we want them to do. Our main supporter, the British, did exactly that, and when Blair's term comes to the polls, the exact same thing that happened to the former Spanish government will happen to him, he will get kicked out for going against the wishes of his people. In this country, a majority of Americans were against going into Iraq without UN support and approval. We went anyway. Now Bush, who should be up 20 points in the polls as Mr 911, is looking like he is on his way out too. You gotta love democracy.
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  #6  
Old 06-15-2004, 10:45 PM
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World > Europe

January 17, 2003

European leaders, public at odds over war with Iraq

A French opinion poll shows 66 percent opposing war, up from 58 percent in August.

By William Boston | Special to The Christian Science Monitor

BERLIN – As US warships ply the oceans to move within striking distance of Iraq, a gap is widening between European leaders who support the US-led effort and a public increasingly opposed to war.
Even staunch US allies such as British Prime Minister Tony Blair and French President Jacques Chirac are on the defensive as public opposition grows and opponents in their political camps speak out against attacking Iraq.

Public-opinion polls indicate a growing sense among ordinary Europeans that weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq have failed to turn up the smoking gun that would justify a major military offensive to remove Saddam Hussein. That is making it harder for European leaders to justify support for action against Iraq, especially as President Bush does not seem convincing about going to war to oust Saddam.

"The political basis for going to war has been significantly eroded over the past few weeks. The Americans have not been able to make a case," says François Heisbourg, head of the Foundation for Strategic Research in France. "If there is no war, then who will have blinked? Saddam will have won, and that's a really big credibility problem."

In the past week, German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder has met with Mr. Blair and Mr. Chirac and discussed the Iraq crisis. Germany and France want any decision to go to war against Iraq to be dependent on a new UN resolution that would be drafted after weapons inspectors present their findings on Jan. 27.

Britain, America's closest ally, does not want to allow the Security Council to tie its hands on Iraq.

"At the turn of the year, it became clear that people in Europe are simply not convinced about going to war with Iraq," says Simon Atkinson, research director at the MORI polling agency in London. "And if there is no UN mandate, there is even less support."

A new poll of French opinion to be published Friday in the French newspaper L'Humanité demonstrates the continued rise of public opposition to war. Asked by the CSA polling agency whether they would support US intervention in Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein, 66 percent of those who responded said they were opposed, up from 58 percent in a poll conducted in August. Support for military action fell to 24 percent from 32 percent.

As a permanent member of the UN Security Council, France is almost certain to support US military action against Iraq in order to preserve its international standing, say analysts. Chirac has begun preparing French troops to go to war, even as public opposition mounts. Lawmakers in his own parliamentary group, the Union for a Presidential Majority, and Socialist members of Parliament have signed a petition against any war in Iraq.

In Britain, Blair is increasingly under pressure because of his support for military action against Iraq. Backbenchers heckled the prime minister during a House of Commons session this week. Clare Short, his international development minister, said any military action must have a UN mandate. The Times of London reported that Ms. Short threatened to resign and that most Labour MPs would back sending British troops into battle against Baghdad only if the action were sanctioned by the UN.

The latest opinion poll in Britain, conducted in December by the ICM Research group, showed Britons almost evenly divided on whether they would support war against Iraq. But the same poll registered a rise in opposition from the month before. When asked whether they approve or disapprove of a military attack on Iraq, 44 percent of those polled said they disapproved - up from 40 percent in November. Approval fell to 36 percent from 39 percent. In both months, 20 percent were undecided.

"Blair still has to do his homework," says Atkinson, the MORI analyst. "His situation has changed. He's got to make a better argument. People just don't follow him like they used to."

The death in Britain this week of a police officer during a raid on suspected terrorists and the discovery of the toxin ricin are raising fears in Britain that a war against Iraq could make Britain a target for terrorists. Concern about terrorist attacks, combined with skepticism about President Bush, leaves Britons uncertain of following the US into battle.

Germans are overwhelmingly opposed to war against Iraq. In a poll conducted by the Forsa polling agency this week, 81 percent said military action against Iraq is not justified. Just 12 percent said it would be justified. Rejection of a war to oust Saddam is high across party lines. Members of the Greens voted 96 percent against military action, while among Social Democrats, 86 percent are opposed, as are 77 percent of Christian Democrats and 66 percent of Free Democrats.

Such polls have consistently shown high opposition to war for the past six months, says Manfred Göllner, director of the Forsa institute. This presents Mr. Schröder with a foreign policy dilemma. In his reelection bid last summer, the chancellor said Germany would not take part in a war against Iraq - with or without a UN mandate. His opposition won him the election, but ties between Berlin and Washington have suffered. Making his job even more difficult, more than 30 parliamentary deputies from his coalition of Social Democrats and Greens signed an antiwar petition this week. "Domestically, he benefits from this position. But it is difficult internationally," says Mr. Göllner.
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  #7  
Old 06-15-2004, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sp0ck
Thanks for posting your stats. First of all there's a few sources in there I just don't trust, a few I've never heard of and one or two unverified... Second, all your research is based on polls. Polls are so wacky-like subjective based on the 6 W's and 1 H. AND so many factors go into em/get left out, there's no way to verify well... you know.....Polls don't=facts in me -o.
Like the LA Times poll showing Kerry with a big lead that turned out to include a sample of 38% Democrats and 25% Republicans, which has no relationship with the real splits in the country. With those demographics, it's amazing the poll only showed Kerry up 7% on Bush; Kerry may be in trouble...
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  #8  
Old 06-15-2004, 11:17 PM
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That story may require a little closer examination. If they were trying to predict the election in California, that sounds like the right mix. If they are trying to model the us electorate, probably not. Myself, I don't trust $hit I see on drudge anymore.
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  #9  
Old 06-15-2004, 11:33 PM
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The Times polls are national. I checked. Also, you may not like Drudge, but he doesn't do his own primary reporting. He was quoting Roll Call, which is reasonably bi-partisan (like Automotive News can't be pro-GM...)
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  #10  
Old 06-15-2004, 11:35 PM
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Shame on them. Another black mark for the LA Times. Next thing you know they'll be telling grope stories.
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  #11  
Old 06-15-2004, 11:40 PM
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Wait a minute dude - I just checked Drudge's web site. He's posting this story on one his "developing..." schticks and claims the story is coming from Roll Call. I check Roll Calls web site, and there nothing there. I smell a Drudge rat. He pulls this **** all the time. Again, until you see this story in the legimate press, its worth about as much as a rat's gonad.
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  #12  
Old 06-15-2004, 11:48 PM
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Ok, now I've gone to the LA Times web site, and there is nothing about this story either. I will bet that this unsubstantiated rumor he posted disappears from his web site tomorrow, never to be heard from again, like 99% of the other BS he posts like this. Look at the post. No byline, no link, just the stupid statement. Whats with the quotation marks? And what poll taken when, is he talking about? Its usual journalistic practice to cite that. This thing looks like more disinformation. And he claims it is being reported on Tueday. You got about another hour before that turns into a flat ass lie.


TWISTED: LA Times Poll Had Sample With 38% Democrats, 25% Republicans
Tue Jun 15 2004 10:13:47 ET

Sen. John Kerry "has taken big lead," according "to an L.A. Times poll."

But the Times poll that showed Kerry "beating Bush by 7 points" has created a controversy over whether the poll's sample accurately reflects the population as whole, ROLL CALL reports on Tuesday.

"Not counting independents, the Times' results were calculated on a sample made up of 38 percent Democrats and 25 percent Republicans -- a huge and unheard-of margin," ROLL CALL claims.

Developing...

Last edited by KirkVining; 06-15-2004 at 11:58 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-16-2004, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PC Dave
The Times polls are national. I checked. Also, you may not like Drudge, but he doesn't do his own primary reporting. He was quoting Roll Call, which is reasonably bi-partisan (like Automotive News can't be pro-GM...)
Ok, now I've checked Foxnews.com, which is guaranteed to report anything negative about the LA Times. Nothing. All's you got is drudge claiming he is quoting Roll Call, but on Roll Call, there doesn't seem to be anything to quote. Another powerful example of what a sleaze ball this liar is, and how want-to-believe right wingers run with it.
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  #14  
Old 06-16-2004, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by KirkVining
Another powerful example of what a sleaze ball this liar is, and how want-to-believe right wingers run with it.
Kirk, someday you'll get past your obsessive hatred of Bush, and maybe learn the art of civil discussion. Here's a story summary from the Roll Call website. What's the real story? I don't know. "Want-to-believe right winger" that I apparently am (who knew?), I'm still too cheap to pay the $199/year to subscribe to get the full story. Feel free to drop the coin yourself and serve me and Matt Drudge a heapin' helpin' of crow.

2) Kinder, Gentler 80s? Kerry Up by Seven? Dont Believe the Hype - (Jun 15 2004)
Between the D-Day celebrations, the G-8 summit, and the death of Ronald Reagan last week, it’s not surprising that a couple of important political points got lost in all the media hype. In both cases, the political buzz was just plain wrong, and someone ought to say so.
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  #15  
Old 06-16-2004, 12:21 AM
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I don't know what obsessive hatred has to do with any of this. I'm sick and tired of this guy getting away with this ****, and I'm going to make a point of calling it out when I see it.
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