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  #16  
Old 06-21-2004, 12:58 PM
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Death w/out religion, a scary unknown.
Death with my beliefs, bring it on!!!! It has to be better than this!
For me, the 2 can't be seperated. Sorry.
I want my grave headstone to read:
"Now I know, and you don't"


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  #17  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rickg
Death w/out religion, a scary unknown.
Death with my beliefs, bring it on!!!! It has to be better than this!
For me, the 2 can't be seperated. Sorry.
I want my grave headstone to read:
"Now I know, and you don't"
And I want mine to read "Ooops!"
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  #18  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GermanStar
And I want mine to read "Ooops!"
Bet you don't do that again.
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  #19  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:32 PM
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Ron always has to learn things the hard way
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  #20  
Old 06-21-2004, 02:09 PM
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If being dead is so great, why hasn't anyone who's dead mentioned it?
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  #21  
Old 06-21-2004, 02:12 PM
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You always want to keep a good thing to yourself Heck, if everyone wanted to be dead, that'd ruin it for sure. Quality would go right to hell
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'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
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2011 Polaris Assault
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  #22  
Old 06-21-2004, 04:50 PM
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It Wouldn't Hurt to Check This List To See If It's Over
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  #23  
Old 06-21-2004, 06:00 PM
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Didn't you use to play for the Grateful Dead?
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  #24  
Old 06-21-2004, 07:08 PM
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Facing the imminent prospects of spinal surgery, death has crossed my mind recently.
I concur, that having a child changes my attitude towards death. The thought of leaving her in a world without a father is very saddening to me. It's not my own death that bothers me, but the lack she would feel. I did not feel the same way before my daughter was born.

What I found interesting as I was signing all the consent forms for surgery which list death as a possible complication, was not that I was bothered by death itself, but that I was bothered by an unplanned, unexpected death.
The prospect of a well planned suicide in the face of pain does not seem to bother me as much as a death that catches me unawares. It could be because unexpected death was knocking at the door whereas I have no suicide plans at the moment.

I don't believe there is any future existence of the individual after death. At least, I see no evidence to believe such a thing occurs.
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  #25  
Old 06-21-2004, 07:37 PM
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Wink

Well, I thought I'd never get a chance to dig out my experience and thesis, so here you go.....take from it what you will

Chaosmosis



11OCT1984



RETURN TO GODHEAD


THE EVENT

At that time the Spirit (mind's eye may be a good way to put it) came upon me. It seemed as if the sound of wind or rushing water enveloped me. As I lay under the power of God, it seemed that I stood on a plain somewhere and could see for miles and miles around me, just as one can stand on one of the great plains of our nation and gaze off into the distance for miles in every direction.

I looked in every direction but I could not see a sign of life anywhere. There were no trees or grass, no flowers or vegetation of any kind. There were no birds or animals. I was not conscious of my earthly surroundings, but seemed to be standing high on a plain somewhere in space.
(much like looking across the grand canyon, I also had a distinct feeling I would see this sight again)

THE FEELING

My documentation of this experience must start with being without self, self is mortal. This is freedom from I, to recall in words if possible is this.

It was the universe of power. It was the network, field, and the lines of the energies of all the beings, stars, galaxies of stars, worlds, animals, minds, nerves, dust, the flux/vibration that is Being itself, all interconnected, every part, part of another part and the whole part of each part and so comprehensible to Itself only as a whole, boundless and unclosed...

The cosmic illumination which can only be described as a brilliant white light, the memory of this experience will always remain--for in these few seconds I received more knowledge and understanding then I had ever received in my years of reading and studying. The Truth is constant, it’s predictable.

THERE IS AN ORDER OF REALITY IN HUMAN LIFE NOT SUBJECT TO SPACE AND TIME.


THESIS

The chief powers (tools if you will) of the conscious mind are reason, logic, form, judgment, calculation, conscience and the moral sense.

The conscious mind is the outgrowth of our physical necessities and likewise our guide in the struggle with our material environment. Its highest function is that of reasoning, and by all methods-- inductive and deductive, analytical and synthetic.

The proper and rational attitude toward mind, if that’s what they are is one of scientific inquiry, which through rigorous exacting will not resist conviction when incontestable proof has been obtained.

METHODOLOGY/
CONCEPTUAL: Inductive method of reasoning utilizing conscience mind.

First collect the facts and elements presented to the sense perception; compare them with each other, noting similarities and dissimilarities; select those alike in quality in uses or function; after which one can form a generalization (a law if you will) that certain things which have such qualities will function in such a way.
This is the scientific method of arriving at knowledge...

CONSCIENCE = SOURCE OF THOUGHT
REMEMBER TRUTH IS CONSTANT.

If desired result is not forthcoming

SUBCONSCIOUS MEMORY = SOURCE OF POWER
"Ask and you will receive, seek and you will find"

Herein is created a new mode of perception and feeling, which leads to the discovery of nonrational (but not irrational) forms of logic, which are multilevel/integrated/simultaneous, not linear/sequential/either-or.

BIOLOGICAL THEORY

In terms of the brain, enlightenment seems to involve a repatterning of neural networks. Whereas before there were unconnected areas of the brain's nervous system, in enlightenment there is a breakthrough, which results in an integration of the nerve pathways, by which we think and feel.

Our multiple "brains" become one brain. The neocortex (the "thinking-intellect" part) and the limbic system and thalamus (the "feeling-emotion" part) and the medulla oblongata (the "intuition-unconscious" part) attain a previously non-existent-but always possible-mode of intercellular communication.

A threshold is passed-probably explained in terms of both cellular electrochemical change and growth of new nerve endings. However it is accomplished in neuropsychological terms, though, the result is a new state of consciousness.

LEVELS OF EXISTENCE

Try to conceive creation as having five levels. From bottom to top they are atomic, biological, psychological, social and cosmic. If you search for the ultimate question "Who am I?” everything you examine will dissolve into the other categories of this metaphor. Start in the middle. You study Psychology and soon the psychological brings you to the social through group psychology. On the social level, group psychology extends into sociology, which in turn leads to a study of religion and philosophy. From there you find yourself concerned with the meaning of existence and the relation of men to the universe. You are now on a study of the cosmic.

Going downward in search of an answer to the question "Who am I?" you soon pass from psychology to a study of biology and chemistry. As you seek to know yourself better you study


cellular composition and neural networks and the chemistry of emotion, perception, learning and memory. But in seeking to understand mentality you find that soon you have descended to the atomic level and are considering the structure of DNA, the transmission of atomic radiation and quantum theory. All of which brings you down to the top level!

For subatomic physics leads you into the study of matter and anti-matter on a cosmic scale. Cosmology is that branch of metaphysics, which treats of the character of the universe as an orderly system. The underlying unity of all knowledge brings you full circle and demonstrates the validity of the ancient saying: "As above, so below."

CONCLUSION

An uncompromising introspection can bring one to a state of salvation.

The mystical state is beyond words and is highly emotional, the unifying principal at work in illumination dissolves the learned semantic categories of "thought vs. "feeling" and "reason vs. "emotion." In the mystical state, intellect and intuition merge. There is a fusion of insight and instinct, which results in a new condition of being.

Our normal state of consciousness shuts off awareness of our affinity with creation, our union with the divine. But if we are normally in a state of sensory repression, it is of equal importance in the study of consciousness to note that man's capacity to modify or edit his sensory processes means that he is capable of exaggerating or enhancing them to animal-like sensitivity, as well as inhibiting them.

This is what seemed to occur in my experience of ecstasy, where I became hypersensitive to all kinds of stimuli. Ecstasy is the transport out of a biologically and culturally mode of thought and perception into a mystic mode. In that mode man returns to a primal state of affairs. But the return is on a higher level.

It is both a circle (revolution) and a linear progression (evolution): an upward spiraling. Man regains his primitive condition, but rather than being unconscious or unaware of it, as animals are, he is superconscious of it. It is paradoxical: By recovering his animal nature, man becomes God. As Christ was Son of Man so are we all Sons of God. (John 3:13).


POSTSCRIPT

Man appears to be constructed in the matter of Yeats' intersecting gyres or as a minature model of the doughnut shaped Van Allen radiation belt surrounding a planet, we are one in the form of many, a whirling vortex if you will in a cosmic reality. Energy cannot die, it can only change states. My bet is another reality after death.....


Now if I could only get that 450sl from running too rich.

Chaosmosis



What would I like on my gravestone??

"I told you I was sick!"

Last edited by Chaosmosis; 06-21-2004 at 08:07 PM.
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  #26  
Old 06-21-2004, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sway
One main reason I don't want to die.

This is my 14-month-old daughter:


What a cutie! Congratulations on a great selection of gene expression! Keep that camera popping, Daddy. You'll love every photo you ever take of your little girl.
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  #27  
Old 06-21-2004, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kerry edwards
...The prospect of a well planned suicide in the face of pain does not seem to bother me as much as a death that catches me unawares. It could be because unexpected death was knocking at the door whereas I have no suicide plans at the moment....
When I was a lot younger I thought I wanted a quick death that caught me unaware. As I grew older, I came to see it as you describe, Kerry. I sure don't want a long affair in dreadful agony, but I think I would like the time to settle things. Remind my friends to whom I owe a chicken or some such.

That realization helped me to set a goal of leading a life that I could leave at a moments notice (or not!). I haven't gotten there yet. I think only the Buddha did. But its a nice goal to keep in mind.

I would like an afterlife. The best I can rationally believe is that some pattern of my life will imprint on others whom I have positively affected. Not a true life, but an image in a mirror, or life through a glass, darkly.

Bot
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  #28  
Old 06-24-2004, 07:34 AM
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Thanks for all of the great responses!

Does anyone else have any experience with accepting death as a part of life or embracing death more than fearing it?
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  #29  
Old 06-24-2004, 11:42 AM
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I tried several times to write notes on this topic, but always digressed to the relationship I perceived between my dad’s passing and my own, not too distant passing. So I will share it as such: I found out I have heart disease at about the same time my dad passed away. He died after 5 heart attacks, 2 strokes, surgery for cancer of the bladder 2x. Most of this was in his last few years. He was an amazingly resilient human. Yet after the strokes he was not even a shadow of his former self. Seeing his passing, and that the road that brought him there is a path I'm inescapably traveling. The partial blockages on my heart are located in a place that can only be cured by open heart surgery. Something I'm not willing to go through due to a number of related factors, some of these are certain financial ruin that will come as a by product of the surgery, the fact that blockages never, ever occur in just one place in the body meaning that even if I have the surgery another partial blockage will eventually come loose and precipitate a stroke, or worse.

To combat this I have changed my diet, I have changed my lifestyle, but there is no way to change the defects in my cardiovascular system which cause this problem. The best I can hope for is to slow the process.

So.........as the reader might imagine I think about dying from time to time. At the end of the day, it always comes back to the importance of enjoying life and eliminating obstacles that stand in the way of that enjoyment. It is all about the quality of life.

The good news, and one from the "hope springs eternal" category, is that on July 3 my uncle (dad’s oldest and only surviving brother) will celebrate his 90th birthday. A slightly early Happy Birthday Uncle Milt!! Proof positive that in some lives you can drink and smoke and not exercise yet still live to be at least 90
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  #30  
Old 06-24-2004, 09:25 PM
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Tracy:
I'm sorry to hear about your physical condition. Those kinds of issues can really weigh on a person's mind. I think you're absolutely right that the issue has to be quality and not quantity. The quantity is limited for everyone and we have more control over quality.

Your heart problems remind me of a former neighbor. He was in mid 70's when I met him, a Polish former Chicago dockworker and WWII veteran. He lived in the basement apt in the building next door and survived on his $345 per month SS check and picking up cans in the dumpsters. He was fiercely independent.
The slumlord who owned the building wanted to work on it so simply shut off the electricity, gas ans water, leaving Lou paying rent with no utilities. He couldn't move because he wouldn't accept government assistance and couldn't afford to get in anywhere else. For three winters he lived in that apt getting power from an extension cord from my house and water from my hose.
He had serious heart problems. In the last couple of years it would be routine for him to have heart attacks and collapse just about anywhere. I'd find him on my front steps, in the yard, in the apt, knocked down from a heart attack. He'd stick some nitro under his tongue and stagger to his feet again. One time I couldn't get him up so called 911. They took him to a hospital and wanted to perform heart surgery. He refused. I think he thought it would undermine his independence.
I finally talked him into letting me get him into subsidized senior housing. It was probably the nicest place he had ever lived. The problem was it was about 3 miles from my house. A couple of times a week, he would walk down to visit me, stopping periodically to deal with his heart attacks. I pleaded with him to take the bus (only 10 cents for seniors), but walking showed his independence.
I got a call from the coroner's office one day. He had died in the bathroom of the Burger King, halfway to my house with the open bottle of nitro in his hand.
To the people that found him, he was just a poor old dumpster can man, unlucky enough not to have good medical care. To me he was a courageous independent individual who confronted life on his own terms and was not willing to compromise on life's quality. To him, the issue was never, how will I deal with death, it was always, How will I live my life?

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1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
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