Spare me. Under Clinton as a direct report to the NSA, Clarke in his job would have been privy to all of this. Read his book, he says he was, especially under Berger. This changed when he was suspected of being an independent thinker. his whole job was to coordinate all this information so it could be looked at concisively by the president. Bush had no desire to view anything that conflicted with his Iraqnaphobia world view, and ran the guy off. the only thing Bush wanted to hear was "Iraq" and those are the only "compartments" that mattered- those giving him what he wanted. It corrupted the CIA, the DOD and every other part of government that was supposed to produce unbiased info. Ask Colin Powell. If I was doing a book report I'd get an "A" for getting the theme of his book right. It's the whole point of the book.

Don't take my word for it. Read his book. He gets just as "tedious".

I look forward to reading it.

Though I'll pass on O'Neil's. One I take seriously the other is a pampered crybaby. Remember that bizarre hearing in which O'Niel and Byrd squared-off over whoo had the most deprived childhood--as though that qualifies folks for a seat at the big table? Bush shouldda known then that O'Neil was a whiner.

Bot

Moore says Bush sat bewildered for 7 minutes in a Florida elementary school classroom after being given news of 9/11 attacks.

The principal of the school Gwendolyn Tose' Rigell says she didn't vote for Bush but would have that day because of his calmness and time he spent to reassure everyone. She says "I don't think anyone could have handled it better."



Moore has Bush saying to himself during this time maybe I'd be better prepared if I hadn't taken off 42% of my first 8 months in office for vacation time.

Bush took off about 15% of time. Moore calculates weekend and working vacation spent with long meetings with Tony Blair and Vincente Fox. Do you count your weekends as vacation and would you count meeting with Vincente Fox as a vacation?



Moore says Bush let members of bin Laden's family fly out of the country after 9/11 because of Saudi business connections to the Bush family.

The 9/11 commission says " each of the flights we studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure. Richard Clarke, former Terrorism Czar and Bush critic recently told The Hill that he decided to let the Saudis go.



Moore says the Carlyle Investment Group with George Bush Sr. as a key member and money from bin Laden's family invested made big profits from the Iraq war.

Bush Sr. was on the board as is former Clinton Administration SEC chairman Arthur Leavitt. Also , Carlyle's defense firm United Defense had their 10 billion dollar Crusader Artillery system cut by the Bush administration. This was one of the few programs they cancelled.



Moore suggests a connection between the Taliban and President Bush.

In December of 1997 the Taliban did visit Unocal, a gas and oil company with holdings in Texas to discuss constructing a pipeline through Afghanistan. Bush did not meet with them. Also, Clinton administration officials at the State Department did meet with them.

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Quote Piotr: Moore says Bush sat bewildered for 7 minutes in a Florida elementary school classroom after being given news of 9/11 attacks.

The principal of the school Gwendolyn Tose' Rigell says she didn't vote for Bush but would have that day because of his calmness and time he spent to reassure everyone. She says "I don't think anyone could have handled it better."

Sounds like you didn't see the movie. He doesn't assert he sat that for 7 minutes, he shows a film of him sitting there looking bewildered. When told the second plane hit, he continued to read aloud to the children in the classroom, still looking like a deer in the headlights. Its nice the principal liked him, but he looks like a flat-ass dope in the film. No lies here. Watch the film and judge for yourself how your president acted. I don't know anyone who saw it that came away within anything but a negative view of Bush's intial reaction to 911.

Quote Piotr:Moore has Bush saying to himself during this time maybe I'd be better prepared if I hadn't taken off 42% of my first 8 months in office for vacation time.

Bush took off about 15% of time. Moore calculates weekend and working vacation spent with long meetings with Tony Blair and Vincente Fox. Do you count your weekends as vacation and would you count meeting with Vincente Fox as a vacation?

Even at 15%, that works out to 7 weeks of vacation a year. Clearly excessive. Considering the state of the economy and the world, why did he spend so much other time away from Washington as well? Clarke, in his book says the Prez totally ignored terrorism, never even holding a meeting on it until two weeks before 911, at a time that Clarke had urgent information on Al-Queda and wanted presidential action. Maybe if he was in Washington instead of playing around elsewhere something would have been done. When he was governor of texas he had the same reputation, a spoiled little rich boy who wanted to play all the time while Karl Rove actually ran the place. We tried to warn you all. Vacation or not, Moore is pointing out that a guy paid to do our business and not to be our f**king king was away from his desk 42% of the time. Meanwhile the people in Washington are going nuts over terrorism. Again, Moore makes a valid point. No lies here as well.



Quote Piotr: Moore says Bush let members of bin Laden's family fly out of the country after 9/11 because of Saudi business connections to the Bush family.

The 9/11 commission says " each of the flights we studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure. Richard Clarke, former Terrorism Czar and Bush critic recently told The Hill that he decided to let the Saudis go.

Yes, but who requested they be allowed to leave in the first place? And why? Anyone could see this was not a good idea.
Why didn't Bush overrule it if he had nothing to do with it happening, at the very least? Moore definatly exaggerates the importance of this but this is so smelly its damn well worth questioning, and the public needs to be informed about it.



Quote Piotr: Moore says the Carlyle Investment Group with George Bush Sr. as a key member and money from bin Laden's family invested made big profits from the Iraq war.

Bush Sr. was on the board as is former Clinton Administration SEC chairman Arthur Leavitt. Also , Carlyle's defense firm United Defense had their 10 billion dollar Crusader Artillery system cut by the Bush administration. This was one of the few programs they cancelled.

That's nice, but the Carlye Group also builds Bradley fighting vehicles, which are all getting nice an worn out in Iraq as we speak. They are also so secretive, no one knows what they are involved in. The fact that all the major players in the war have "links" to Carlyle, a 14 Billion Dollar defense concern, is as worthy of consideration as all the "links" you guys claim between Saddam and Ossama. This company needs to be investigated.
Bin Laden family, Bush family, Ex-CIA head Carlucci, Tony Blair, why are all the cast of characters of the Iraq tragi-comedy involved somehow with this giant company? Again, Moore is doing the public a service by exposing something that we all need to be asking questions about. I for one would like to know, even though G Bush Sr is no longer working for them, how much does he hold in common stock in this company? Again, no "lies" here as well.


Quote Piotr: Moore suggests a connection between the Taliban and President Bush.

In December of 1997 the Taliban did visit Unocal, a gas and oil company with holdings in Texas to discuss constructing a pipeline through Afghanistan. Bush did not meet with them. Also, Clinton administration officials at the State Department did meet with them.

Moore doesn't say he met them. Here is what's in the movie:
********************************************
NARRATOR: Or was the war in Afghanistan really about something else? Perhaps the answer was in Houston, Texas. In 1997 while George W. Bush was Governor of Texas, a delegation of Taliban leaders from Afghanistan flew to Houston to meet with Unocal executives to discuss the building of a pipeline through Afghanistan bringing natural gas from the Caspian Sea. And who got a Caspian Sea drilling contract the same day Unocal signed the pipeline deal? A company headed by a man named Dick Cheney: Halliburton.

MARTHA BRILL OLCOTT: The point of view of the US government is this was kind of a magic pipeline (laugh), um, because it could serve so many purposes.

NARRATOR: And who else stood to benefit from the pipeline? Bush's number one campaign contributor, Kenneth Lay, and the good people of Enron. (shot of BBC News website, 3 December 1997) Only the British press covered this trip. Then in 2001, just 5 1/2 months before 9/11, the Bush Administration welcomed a special Taliban envoy to tour the United States to help improve the image of the Taliban government.
***************************************
Some pretty good "links" in there, yeah buddy! You guys spit out this "links" garbage everyday whenever your trying to prove that Saddam and Ossama where working together. Seems like you can dish it out, but you can't take it. Moore has as much right to report this as suspicious as you do to get hysterical about some meeting in the Sudan. Didn't see any lies or any claim Bush met the Taliban. It certainly does raise the question that maybe the reason we went easy on the Taliban before 911 is because the oil industry was trying to make some sweet deals with them.

Given Bush's track record with the truth on Iraq, it's pretty obvious the movie is a more truthful depiction of how we got into the situation we are in than anything we will get from the Bush regime. That's the reason people are flocking to this movie - people no longer think they are getting the truth on Iraq from the Bushies, and they wanted to hear a view from a different source. Its about damn time someone at least offered that.

We are in Iraq because a craven bunch of corrupt politicians who planned this war before they even took office hijacked the 911 tragedy to prosecute an unnecessary war that resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, a war they wanted for the sake of their own vested interests. Once he is out of office, he and about four other people in his adminisration should be arrested for the crime against humanity of Waging Agressive War, and brought to the Hague in chains. And don't think that is some oddball idea coming from an Internet Forum - there is a world wide movement forming to demand just that. Although this movie isn't a conviction, it sure is one hell of an indictment.

This means that Kirk is strongly considering voting for somebody other than Mr. Bush.

I think I know now why the military gave us the internet...............

William Rogers..........

They are all Democrats?

Will we still have a Ford camp and a Chevy camp when the last barrel of oil is pumped from earth and put on display in a Rotunda?

William Rogers........

Actually, as soon as Bush, The Carlyle Group, the Bin Ladens and the Saudis figure out a way to own the sun, you'll see solar powered Chevy's and Fords.

Dang! I forgot the Carlisle Group, too! I'll stick them in.

Its so sad that the well-intentioned, popularly elected (over 99%!) president of Iraq was deposed by warmongering rightwing neocon imperialists bent of human destruction of the civilian populace to enrich the American companies that own the country's leadership, which dances to the Arab songsters in Saudi Arabia who's peace-loving religion is being maligned by the Christian rightwing that supports the puppet-President in his pro-Zionist policies of genocide against the peaceful people of Palestine (who are supported by the honorable, brave French who steadfastly oppose the capitalistic hegemony of Amerika, while making oild deals with the Saddam regime to bring much-needed medical supplies to the pestulent children of Iraq suffering under the brutal Anglo-Amerikan military invasion) while supporting the drug-traffickers encouraged to return by the warlords of Aghanistan who were put back in power by the administration after deposing the pious, peace-loving Taliban since they refused to allow an oil company that owns the Vice President passage through their country at below-market value, who supported the Blessed Saudi missionaries who were trying to bring peace through Islam led by the murderous Bin Laden who has close ties to the Bush family, that rightwing religious christian zealot who is controlled by the zionists through the Carlisle Group and Dick Cheney before he dicks you.

Any more co-conspirators that you can think of, let me know.

B

Bot,

Might be more accurate now, but as long as it ended with "Dick Cheney before he dicks you" it was already at the top of the heap. Jim

__________________
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key word: complex

Can't have too many of 'em

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