Lady Z and I are in the process of leaving our sprawling rural farm spread and purchasing a new home back in cosmopolitan Olympia.

We're heavily leveraging our finances in order to purchase this nice 20 yr old log home in a semi-rural/urban space, but we've been trying to leap a number of hurdles, one of which is a provision in the Patriot Act. It's a measure ostensibly set up to to hinder money laundering, but may also keep many a law-abiding individuals from realizing their dreams of home ownership. We're required to show that three weeks prior to the closing date, we have 3% of the final sales price as assets in a bank account. These cannot be in the form of a loan, gifts or anything other than assets that can be accounted for by your own conduits of 'legitimate' wealth generation. This has required us to sell one of our best vehicles (Passat tdi), raid our kid's bank accounts, and beg for an advance on my next paycheck--this is humiliating, not to mention a major government intrusion into our private and personal business.

Does anyone have any additional information about the how and why of this provision--please keep this thread informational and a-political.

If the Patriot Act (not to be confused with Mel Gibson in stockings) finds that it's important to know what books you borrow from the library, is there any question about why "they" wouldn't want to know everything?

This is strange. I have never heard of this. I was approved for a 100% loan a few months ago (before changing my mind) and they required none of this. Did your bank say this is for all types of loans?

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1994 C 280 117.5k, White (Good as new)
1997 Toyota Camry 149k Miles (Not so pretty anymore)

1990 190e 2.6 95k (Sold-Should not have)
1981 240d Stick ??? Miles...sold

Our prepayment penalty clause expired in May and we're still waiting to finalize our refinance. The hoops our existing lender made us go through just to get a payoff statement were unbelievable. Then it took 2 weeks to get a fax to the title company.

It would not surprise me one bit if in your case they're fabricating or grossly exaggerating the letter and/or spirit of the Patriot Act to improve your qualifications without rewarding you with a better product. What they're claiming to be law probably has to do with purchases by foreigners or properties over $10M (maybe yours is) or something like that.

Call their bluff. Threaten to walk. There is no shortage of lenders or brokers.

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

Yes, I told a broker to forget it twice, and both times he changed his tune.

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1994 C 280 117.5k, White (Good as new)
1997 Toyota Camry 149k Miles (Not so pretty anymore)

1990 190e 2.6 95k (Sold-Should not have)
1981 240d Stick ??? Miles...sold

Don't get it. We made two official trips during our whole homebuying experience. It was seamless.

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

15 years ago, when I financed my first home, I remember the lender requiring proof that I already had most of the down payment, in the form of bank statments going back for at least 6 months. (As I recall, 'drug money laundering' was the rationale at the time) Fortunately, I had been saving up for a few years so, for me, it wasn't a problem.

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

Something stinks, and I agree with the others. Threaten to walk, and keep yer Veedub TDI - especially with as rare as those cars are.

Having to show proof of assets is a load of bull, and it's none of the finance companies business so long as they receive certified funds at closing.


Hehehe I cannot help but chuckle though at the most left leaning person on this board is getting an example of why I am so anti government.

I can assure you that folks of my ideological bent were opposed to the Patriot Act from the get-go...but, I digress.

It's interesting that while googling I can't seem to find much info on the money laundering provisions as they relate to home loans, and no one else I've spoken with has heard of it either. This is our third home purchase, and the first time we've been required to jump through this hoop. My wife has been dealing with the bank so far, so I don't have any first hand knowledge of what exactly the bank is looking for--there's been no paperwork outlining the specifics presented to us yet.

It would be curious indeed if lending institutions are using the Patriot Act as a subterfuge in order to ensure that their potential clients are more risk-worthy, or to deny them altogether.

I did find this info on a website:

The USA Patriot Act requires banks to take extra security precautions to help the government fight the funding of terrorism. Federal law requires all financial institutions to obtain name, Social Security Number, address, and date of birth from all account holders. In addition, you will be asked for a driver's license or other government-issued photo ID.

Nothing there about an intrusive investigation of your personal finances.

This seems to be more to the point:
Where did my down payment come from?
Your lender will want to know where you obtained funds for your down payment, closing costs and other fees.

Gifts may be used for this purpose, but must be verified in writing (even gifts from relatives).

If you’re providing less than five percent of the sales price in down payment, the gift must come from a relative, along with a letter stating the person’s relation to you, the amount of the gift and that no repayment is expected.

Finally, be aware that in some cases payment of credit report and appraisal fees (usually $500 or less) may be required when applying

I'm beginning to suspect that the loan officer threw out the reference to the Patriot Act as a means of disguising the bank's own screening process policies.

Agree with the others that something smells about this deal. When I bought the Michigan house, they wanted to see my Social Security card...a requirement of the Patriot Act. I told them I hadn't seen that card in nearly 25 years, but I know my number AND it was plastered all over my paystubs. Then I rather matter of factly informed them that the Social Security Card is one of the most counterfieted documents going, that I have seen and destroyed literally thousands of them! Once presented with that info the bank changed their tune, until it came time to sign. Then they wanted my signature, but signed exactly as the name was printed on the docs. I then informed them that if I signed using my full name it wouldn't be my signature, so they either take my "official" signature or I don't sign. Any document signed using my full name dated after about 1990 is a forgery, once explained I was allowed to use my normal signature.

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Mike Tangas
'73 280SEL 4.5 (9/72)- RIP
Only 8,173 units built from 5/71 thru 11/72

'02 CLK320 Cabriolet - wifey's mid-life crisis

2012 VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI...at least its a diesel

Non illegitemae carborundum.

The only thing that was brought up regarding the "Patriot Act" was when the title co. made a copy of my drivers license at close. That was it.

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1994 C 280 117.5k, White (Good as new)
1997 Toyota Camry 149k Miles (Not so pretty anymore)

1990 190e 2.6 95k (Sold-Should not have)
1981 240d Stick ??? Miles...sold

I had that happen to me when signing up to vote. The elderly registrar did not accpet my illegible signature which matched the scribble on my driver's license upon which the rest of my identity was verified. I complied to get the darn thing out of the way.

On a side note, it was funny to see the registrars' walkers amassed by the registration table like strollers by the carousel at Disneyland.

Sixto

Maybe so. However, I would be curious as to the TRUE nature of their opposition. The political left has always been for bigger, more intrusive government. The "patriot act" seems to fit that bill perfectly. My favourite statement from them is, "that if you have nothing to hide, then why do you care."

Irregardless, whomever you are going to for your mortage, is out of line with their demands, and you did ask for this to not turn into another political rant thread.

Quote: "...Patriot Act as a means of disguising the bank's own screening process..."

It's called Cherry-Picking. From the bank's perspective, 'people who matter' get doors opened, while the average guy gets more hoops to jump through. There's always some excuse! In your case the bank cries fear of "terrorist money". In my day it was 'drug money'. I suppose in the '50s it was 'Red money'. I'm sure the banks will be happier to lend after the interest goes up a point or two. I'd ask the lender to provide, in writing, the specific regulation he's quoting

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

The money laundering provisions were added at the instance of the Democrats in Congress. Money laundering is a big problem due to drugs. The Patriot Act was just reauthorized by Congress.

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Regards

Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.