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  #16  
Old 07-02-2014, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
Anyone that hides behind a gun is coward.
What a broad brush.

You just insulted the President, the Governor of your state, mayors of all large cities, and loads of elected public officials---most of whom want to deny that same right to "just" citizens.
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  #17  
Old 07-02-2014, 07:28 PM
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The revolution is coming.

Tjts1 is just a bomb thrower. Theres a few of those types on here.
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  #18  
Old 07-02-2014, 07:42 PM
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2A is alive and well in many places. Move please... We go to a gun shop. Pick up a AR or something. A minute after filling out the form, they hand you the weapon, As you are about ready to leave. you hear something like. "You can't leave just yet" and they fill a magazine and you slap it into the mag well and hit the bolt release.... Now you can leave.... True story!

We moved here from a Blue state. The government bureaucrats treat responsible adults like children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
I want my 2A rights back!
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  #19  
Old 07-02-2014, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS View Post
Nick Hanauer thinks pitch fork time is near. The question is - when?
I think Nick Hanauer did not live through the 1960s and early 1970s with Riots and other turmoil. If We were going to have a (violent) Revolution it would have been back then.

And back the People had the Communist to step in an support the Revolution.

Change Unlikely Revolution No.

Story; Revolution happens; the Wealthy go to outher Countries to live and take their Businesses and Wealth with the; everything that left is destroyed or broken for 10-infinity Years. The despotic Powers that step in throw out CONUS because they need to be brutal to restore any sort of order.

We would also be extremely lucky if China did not step in and take over the defenseless Country.

The present effective Revolution in our Country consists of decimalizing Drugs and other Crimes so that the People are to high to care or feel good about getting away with something.

Or was Nick Hanauer speaking of a Spiritual Revolution?

A true functional Revolution in our Country could be had if People started leaning to control themselves.
Start of with only spending Money on things that you can afford. Start avoiding spending Money on stuff that just makes more unhealthy.
Start living in a manner that keeps you out of the Court and Criminal Justice System.
Develop a Character that keeps you from being manipulated by outside sources and keeps you out of trouble and Healthy.

Avoid having Children you lack the skill to raise or take care of.

Look at our own Revolution that created the USA.

It was not just an exploding Bomb that destroyed and dissipated leaving nothing constructive.

Look at that leaders of the Revolution; look at their Characters and what they created.
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  #20  
Old 07-02-2014, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
Anyone that hides behind a gun is coward.
Yet to find a fist that can stop a .45, unless you are a ninja...are YOU a ninja?
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  #21  
Old 07-02-2014, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silber Adler View Post
2A is alive and well in many places. Move please... We go to a gun shop. Pick up a AR or something. A minute after filling out the form, they hand you the weapon, As you are about ready to leave. you hear something like. "You can't leave just yet" and they fill a magazine and you slap it into the mag well and hit the bolt release.... Now you can leave.... True story!

We moved here from a Blue state. The government bureaucrats treat responsible adults like children.
Sigh, in my state that would be a felony.

One day if I sell my business I'm leaving.
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  #22  
Old 07-02-2014, 08:39 PM
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The most interesting observation of Hanauers is not that there are a few mega rich and a lot of dirt poor. That has always been the case and always will be. It's the fact that the middle class in the USA is being adversely affected, some think decimated by the new economic reality. This leaves a gaping hole in the foundation of the middle of the country on which its stability has always rested and that is very bad for the country indeed.

The fundamental difference about America is that more than anywhere else if you were an average Joe by dint of hard work and some decent education you could move up in the world in a more or less certain manner. You might never be a mega rich billionaire but you'd probably be better off than your parents. And I might add, better off in such a way as to be the envy of much of the rest of the world. That is no longer the case.

The technical industrial jobs on which the prosperity of the middle class was based have been exported to the third world and they show no sign or returning. Vast amounts of pseudo wealth vanished when the great ponzi scheme blew up and there is nothing to replace it.

Those who speak of the 60's and 70's as time when revolution was going to occur if ever miss the point. Those "revolutions" were merely social changes confined to specific minority groups and had very little to do with the economic position of the middle class, ie, the bulk of the citizenry on whom the stability of the country depended.

No longer the case. As the country becomes more third world by the day and the traditional foundation of its prosperity continues to evaporate with nothing to replace it the country moves towards a position that it has never been in before and of which it's citizenry (native citizenry I should add) have no experience, other than in that vanishingly rare item, the history book.

The US may be able to ride out this storm and regenerate itself but so far there's nothing appearing on the horizon that might facilitate that process.

That's the reality Hanauer sees and I think he's right.

Eventually with the country sliding into third world status and the 1 percent oblivious to reality the pitchforks come out to play.

- Peter.
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  #23  
Old 07-02-2014, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
You just insulted the President, the Governor of your state, mayors of all large cities, and loads of elected public officials---most of whom want to deny that same right to "just" citizens.
That is just tj. At least he treats everyone the same. Heck he called me a douche bag and we have never met.
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Last edited by engatwork; 07-02-2014 at 09:02 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-02-2014, 08:55 PM
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But if someone hides he's a coward.
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  #25  
Old 07-02-2014, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj67coll View Post
The most interesting observation of Hanauers is not that there are a few mega rich and a lot of dirt poor. That has always been the case and always will be. It's the fact that the middle class in the USA is being adversely affected, some think decimated by the new economic reality. This leaves a gaping hole in the foundation of the middle of the country on which its stability has always rested and that is very bad for the country indeed.

The fundamental difference about America is that more than anywhere else if you were an average Joe by dint of hard work and some decent education you could move up in the world in a more or less certain manner. You might never be a mega rich billionaire but you'd probably be better off than your parents. And I might add, better off in such a way as to be the envy of much of the rest of the world. That is no longer the case.

The technical industrial jobs on which the prosperity of the middle class was based have been exported to the third world and they show no sign or returning. Vast amounts of pseudo wealth vanished when the great ponzi scheme blew up and there is nothing to replace it.

Those who speak of the 60's and 70's as time when revolution was going to occur if ever miss the point. Those "revolutions" were merely social changes confined to specific minority groups and had very little to do with the economic position of the middle class, ie, the bulk of the citizenry on whom the stability of the country depended.

No longer the case. As the country becomes more third world by the day and the traditional foundation of its prosperity continues to evaporate with nothing to replace it the country moves towards a position that it has never been in before and of which it's citizenry (native citizenry I should add) have no experience, other than in that vanishingly rare item, the history book.

The US may be able to ride out this storm and regenerate itself but so far there's nothing appearing on the horizon that might facilitate that process.

That's the reality Hanauer sees and I think he's right.

Eventually with the country sliding into third world status and the 1 percent oblivious to reality the pitchforks come out to play.

- Peter.
Yes.
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  #26  
Old 07-02-2014, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
I think Nick Hanauer did not live through the 1960s and early 1970s with Riots and other turmoil. If We were going to have a (violent) Revolution it would have been back then.

And back the People had the Communist to step in an support the Revolution.

Change Unlikely Revolution No.

Story; Revolution happens; the Wealthy go to outher Countries to live and take their Businesses and Wealth with the; everything that left is destroyed or broken for 10-infinity Years. The despotic Powers that step in throw out CONUS because they need to be brutal to restore any sort of order.

We would also be extremely lucky if China did not step in and take over the defenseless Country.

The present effective Revolution in our Country consists of decimalizing Drugs and other Crimes so that the People are to high to care or feel good about getting away with something.

Or was Nick Hanauer speaking of a Spiritual Revolution?

A true functional Revolution in our Country could be had if People started leaning to control themselves.
Start of with only spending Money on things that you can afford. Start avoiding spending Money on stuff that just makes more unhealthy.
Start living in a manner that keeps you out of the Court and Criminal Justice System.
Develop a Character that keeps you from being manipulated by outside sources and keeps you out of trouble and Healthy.

Avoid having Children you lack the skill to raise or take care of.

Look at our own Revolution that created the USA.

It was not just an exploding Bomb that destroyed and dissipated leaving nothing constructive.

Look at that leaders of the Revolution; look at their Characters and what they created.
How long have you been at ESL classes?
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  #27  
Old 07-03-2014, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj67coll View Post
The most interesting observation of Hanauers is not that there are a few mega rich and a lot of dirt poor. That has always been the case and always will be. It's the fact that the middle class in the USA is being adversely affected, some think decimated by the new economic reality. This leaves a gaping hole in the foundation of the middle of the country on which its stability has always rested and that is very bad for the country indeed.

The fundamental difference about America is that more than anywhere else if you were an average Joe by dint of hard work and some decent education you could move up in the world in a more or less certain manner. You might never be a mega rich billionaire but you'd probably be better off than your parents. And I might add, better off in such a way as to be the envy of much of the rest of the world. That is no longer the case.

The technical industrial jobs on which the prosperity of the middle class was based have been exported to the third world and they show no sign or returning. Vast amounts of pseudo wealth vanished when the great ponzi scheme blew up and there is nothing to replace it.

Those who speak of the 60's and 70's as time when revolution was going to occur if ever miss the point. Those "revolutions" were merely social changes confined to specific minority groups and had very little to do with the economic position of the middle class, ie, the bulk of the citizenry on whom the stability of the country depended.

No longer the case. As the country becomes more third world by the day and the traditional foundation of its prosperity continues to evaporate with nothing to replace it the country moves towards a position that it has never been in before and of which it's citizenry (native citizenry I should add) have no experience, other than in that vanishingly rare item, the history book.

The US may be able to ride out this storm and regenerate itself but so far there's nothing appearing on the horizon that might facilitate that process.

That's the reality Hanauer sees and I think he's right.

Eventually with the country sliding into third world status and the 1 percent oblivious to reality the pitchforks come out to play.

- Peter.
I think that the only thing that would bring the USA Economy back is if a large Portion of the rest of the world starts to develop a large middle Class and wages in the other parts of the world rise to a similar level. For that to ever happen would take forever because plenty of Poor Countries out there that are not developed.

"Those who speak of the 60's and 70's as time when revolution was going to occur if ever miss the point. Those "revolutions" were merely social changes confined to specific minority groups and had very little to do with the economic position of the middle class, ie, the bulk of the citizenry on whom the stability of the country depended."

The above comment leaves out that it was also the Middle Class that joined and accepted the Revolution. As with great strides in Civil Rights during the Era if the Middle Class had not be Onboard with it would not have happened.

Besides the Social Minority issues there was just plain a lot of Antigovernment issues.

Some would say it is the Social Changes that prevented a violent revolution.

Right now I see reasons for discontent; reasons that might be effected by an organized Political Struggle but there is no organization as things have not become bad enough for that. Or National Character is we do not do thing until it badly broke.

No organization, no Leaders, no Leaders, no plan and no violent Revolution. Oh, and no Money or other support for Revolution.
Even the US Revolution was partly funded/supported by the French.

Also like in the "Great Depression" we get wagged by World issues that no one let alone the USA can control.
On the other end of this while I hated Communism the I believe the threat of it kept the Capitalistic forces somewhat in check. Right now Capitalism can run wild if it wants and screw who it wants to.
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  #28  
Old 07-03-2014, 08:54 AM
Posting since Jan 2000
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Been in a recession and lazy recover for several years. Income inequality is increasing. Government involvement in our lives is increasing. Taxes going up. Spending going up. Federal taxpayers are about half the population and declining. Illegal aliens come practically unimpeded into the country.

People who vote don't have to prove they are eligible to vote.
EXCELLENT summation!
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  #29  
Old 07-03-2014, 08:59 AM
Posting since Jan 2000
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
I think Nick Hanauer did not live through the 1960s and early 1970s with Riots and other turmoil. If We were going to have a (violent) Revolution it would have been back then.

And back the People had the Communist to step in an support the Revolution.

Change Unlikely Revolution No.

Story; Revolution happens; the Wealthy go to outher Countries to live and take their Businesses and Wealth with the; everything that left is destroyed or broken for 10-infinity Years. The despotic Powers that step in throw out CONUS because they need to be brutal to restore any sort of order.

We would also be extremely lucky if China did not step in and take over the defenseless Country.

The present effective Revolution in our Country consists of decimalizing Drugs and other Crimes so that the People are to high to care or feel good about getting away with something.

Or was Nick Hanauer speaking of a Spiritual Revolution?

A true functional Revolution in our Country could be had if People started leaning to control themselves.
Start of with only spending Money on things that you can afford. Start avoiding spending Money on stuff that just makes more unhealthy.
Start living in a manner that keeps you out of the Court and Criminal Justice System.
Develop a Character that keeps you from being manipulated by outside sources and keeps you out of trouble and Healthy.

Avoid having Children you lack the skill to raise or take care of.

Look at our own Revolution that created the USA.

It was not just an exploding Bomb that destroyed and dissipated leaving nothing constructive.

Look at that leaders of the Revolution; look at their Characters and what they created.
I thought the discussion was about the USA, but you described Detroit.
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  #30  
Old 07-03-2014, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
The above comment leaves out that it was also the Middle Class that joined and accepted the Revolution. As with great strides in Civil Rights during the Era if the Middle Class had not be Onboard with it would not have happened.
True but meaningless in the context of Hanauers exposition which is exclusively economic.

Quote:
Besides the Social Minority issues there was just plain a lot of Antigovernment issues.
Yes, but again thats still just a bunch of social issues, it's not economic. You can live in a dictatorship and as long as the economy is thriving most people will be happy enough just getting richer every day. China is a perfect case in point.

Quote:
Or National Character is we do not do thing until it badly broke.
That's right. And it's not badly enough broken yet but Hanauers' observation is it's heading in that direction.

Quote:
On the other end of this while I hated Communism the I believe the threat of it kept the Capitalistic forces somewhat in check. Right now Capitalism can run wild if it wants and screw who it wants to.
Yes, up to a point. What built America was not Capitalism but a mixture of capitalism and socialism (if you define socialism as big government spending) working in partnership within a mostly free market system founded on the rule of law.

The greatest period of prosperity in American history was from the 50's to the end of the 90's based on America's being able to benifet hugely from the second world war and the massive government investment in high tech industry that was required to win that.

WWII was the best thing that ever happened to America and there was a very long tail to that event which I think has finally played itself out.

There's nothing on the horizon to replace it. The US has no leaders worth a damm and a largely ignorant populace who don't get the new reality. Such a ship will likely just drift along buffeted by events until it founders on a hidden reef.

Except the reef aint all that hidden, as Hanauer highlighted in his essay.

- Peter.
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Formerly...
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