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  #76  
Old 07-17-2015, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
False.
True.
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  #77  
Old 07-17-2015, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
You overlook the reason we went in......Saddam successfully created the illusion he was, in fact producing WMD's. I believe Bush stated that too.



Then why did Gen James Clapper of the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, Moshe Ya'alon Israel’s Defense Minister and Iraqi general Georges Sada , former Deputy Chief of Saddam’s Air Force all separately come to the same conclusion that a great majority of illicit chemical agents and weapons were moved into Syria prior to the invasion?

Nobody went into Syria.....

Since ISIS, some caches of chemical weapons have been found and last I heard, were being checked to see if they came from Iraq. That tells me there must be some type of inventory documents of 'missing' munitions from Iraq.

Iraq ran a large portion of its air force into Iran prior to the first war and during OIF we found Mig-25's buried in the sand.
So you admit we went to Iraq based on an illusion?
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- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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  #78  
Old 07-17-2015, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
So you admit we went to Iraq based on an illusion?
These people surely did.

Quote:
George Tenet, George W. Bush's CIA director, assured the President that the case for Saddam possessing WMD was “a slam dunk.” In this assessment, Tenet had the backing of all fifteen agencies involved in gathering intelligence for the United States. The National Intelligence Estimate of 2002, where their collective views were summarized, asserted with “high confidence” that "Iraq is continuing, and in some areas expanding its chemical, biological, nuclear, and missile programs contrary to UN resolutions.

The intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel, and France all agreed with this judgment. Even Hans Blix—who headed the UN team of inspectors trying to determine whether Saddam had complied with the demands of the Security Council that he dispose of the WMD he was known to have had in the past—lent further credibility to the case in a report he issued only a few months before the invasion:
Quote:
Nancy Pelosi, then a member of the House Intelligence Committee, stated: "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of [WMD] technology, which is a threat to countries in the region, and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Quote:
This Democratic drumbeat continued and even intensified when George W. Bush succeeded Clinton in 2001. In a letter to the new President, a number of Senators led by Florida Democrat Bob Graham declared:
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical, and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf war status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Quote:
Senator Carl Levin reaffirmed for Bush’s benefit what he had told Clinton some years earlier:
"Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations, and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Quote:
Senator Hillary Clinton agreed, speaking in October 2002:
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical- and biological-weapons stock, his missile-delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaeda members."
Quote:
Senator Jay Rockefeller, vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, concurred:
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years.... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Quote:
Also in 2002, Al Gore said the following:
  • "We know that [Saddam] has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
  • "Iraq’s search for [WMD] has proven impossible to deter, and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Quote:
Senator John Kerry announced in 2002: "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force—if necessary—to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."

That same year, Senator Ted Kennedy said, "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."

Senator Robert Byrd put it this way: "We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has [since 1998] embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical- and biological-warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons."

William Cohen, who had served as President Clinton’s Secretary of Defense, remained “absolutely convinced” that Saddam possessed stockpiles of WMD even after the U.S. military had failed to find them in the wake of the invasion in March 2003.

Kenneth Pollack, who served in the National Security Council under President Clinton, recalls:
"In the late spring of 2002, I participated in a Washington meeting about Iraqi WMD. Those present included nearly twenty former inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), the force established in 1991 to oversee the elimination of WMD in Iraq. One of the senior people put a question to the group: did anyone in the room doubt that Iraq was currently operating a secret centrifuge plant? No one did."
Interesting views from the people who made the decision.
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  #79  
Old 07-17-2015, 09:36 PM
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There you go muddling their minds with facts again Dude.
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  #80  
Old 07-17-2015, 10:52 PM
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Sorry..the fact is the 'war' was a dog..benefitting the arms manufacturers ...pure and simple.

And now..the blowback from that fiasco has manifested itself..The bush/cheney legacy Lives On.
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  #81  
Old 07-17-2015, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
These people surely did.



Interesting views from the people who made the decision.
The agencies gathering the intelligence were reporting to who again?

U.S. Intelligence and Iraq WMD
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- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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  #82  
Old 07-17-2015, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
There you go muddling their minds with facts again Dude.
I'm sorry but this never gets old. The idea of you talking about facts is just funny as hell.
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- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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  #83  
Old 07-18-2015, 01:28 PM
Posting since Jan 2000
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilcutt View Post
Sorry..the fact is the 'war' was a dog..benefitting the arms manufacturers ...pure and simple.

And now..the blowback from that fiasco has manifested itself..The bush/cheney legacy Lives On.
The blowback is due to the Muslim sympathizing POTUS pulling the troops out to let ISIS get control. Maybe it wasn't a good idea to go in the first time, but it happened. That is done. It is now the job of the current Muslim sympathizer in charge to deal with it and he refuses to.
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  #84  
Old 07-18-2015, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
The agencies gathering the intelligence were reporting to who again?

U.S. Intelligence and Iraq WMD
So you're saying this worked just like oBama and his global warming agenda?
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  #85  
Old 07-18-2015, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
True.
Let's see your proof that the USA supplied WMD to Iraq in the 1980's. That should be easy for you. Until you provide proof, you're lust parroting a common falsehood.
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  #86  
Old 07-18-2015, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Let's see your proof that the USA supplied WMD to Iraq in the 1980's. That should be easy for you. Until you provide proof, you're lust parroting a common falsehood.
Define proof, but this is a start. Btw this was not a secret back in the eighties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war
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  #87  
Old 07-18-2015, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jorn View Post
Define proof, but this is a start. Btw this was not a secret back in the eighties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war
The key is understanding the term, "dual use." For example, to run a veterinary teaching lab the teacher must have access to diseased tissue. That tissue comes from diseased animals. An example of 'dual use' biological agent is an anthrax culture. It can be used to teach veterinary students or for development as a weapon of war (weaponized).

Another dual use item might be a factory for making organophosphate insecticides. For example, malathion, which is a common garden pesticide in the USA. The same factory for making organophosphate insecticides could be modified to make organophosphate weapons, like say, saran gas.

Etc.

But this is not WMD. In each case it is multiple steps from the "normal use" to the weapon.

Should other nations be denied tools for teaching medicine or developing pesticides out of a belief that the items may have the capacity for being converted into something else? This is a great way to keep the Third World, third.

Recall that President Clinton bombed the hell out of a acetaminophen factory in Africa. Or was that factory being converted from acetaminophen to a chemical weapons factory?



Keep digging.
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  #88  
Old 07-18-2015, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
So you're saying this worked just like oBama and his global warming agenda?
Nope. Never said that at all.
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- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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  #89  
Old 07-18-2015, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
The key is understanding the term, "dual use." For example, to run a veterinary teaching lab the teacher must have access to diseased tissue. That tissue comes from diseased animals. An example of 'dual use' biological agent is an anthrax culture. It can be used to teach veterinary students or for development as a weapon of war (weaponized).

Another dual use item might be a factory for making organophosphate insecticides. For example, malathion, which is a common garden pesticide in the USA. The same factory for making organophosphate insecticides could be modified to make organophosphate weapons, like say, saran gas.

Etc.

But this is not WMD. In each case it is multiple steps from the "normal use" to the weapon.

Should other nations be denied tools for teaching medicine or developing pesticides out of a belief that the items may have the capacity for being converted into something else? This is a great way to keep the Third World, third.

Recall that President Clinton bombed the hell out of a acetaminophen factory in Africa. Or was that factory being converted from acetaminophen to a chemical weapons factory?



Keep digging.
Are you actually arguing that we took Iraq off the terrorist list so we could sell them chemicals to use for peaceful purposes while they were at war with Iran who we were enemies with? I guess anything is possible but I would not bet a penny on it. Especially when you factor in the part about Bush keeping the discoveries of chemical weapons secret.

Does not pass the smell test.
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2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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  #90  
Old 07-18-2015, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
Nope. Never said that at all.

LOL....you should seriously think about that.

The President wants answers.
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“A satirical piece in the Times is one thing, but bricks and baseball bats really gets right to the point of it.”

"The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States. ....George Soros




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