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  #1  
Old 03-23-2016, 06:11 AM
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Piers Morgan on Trump

Interesting....

When it comes to terror, PIERS MORGAN says we should listen to Donald Trump | Daily Mail Online
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Old 03-23-2016, 06:28 AM
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Right, so he wants to start Vietnam war style quagmire stuations in Muslim countries that look at him wrong, he wants to build a 1900 mile wall to keep out the Mongol horde, err i mean Mexicans who work, and he wants to scribble over sections of the bill of rights to "do something".
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Old 03-23-2016, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
Right, so he wants to start Vietnam war style quagmire stuations in MuslimD countries that look at him wrong, he wants to build a 1900 mile wall to keep out the Mongol horde, err i mean Mexicans who work, and he wants to scribble over sections of the bill of rights to "do something".
Horribly weak retort. I'm betting you didn't even bother to read the article.
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Old 03-23-2016, 06:45 AM
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Horribly weak retort. I'm betting you didn't even bother to read the article.
I did. Trumps comments are the same as usual. Piers morgan seems to believe he is sincere, which is great. Does not mean that simple solutions will solve complex problems.

Let me ask you this question-

What makes you think trumps stupid giant wall idea for the Mexican border which is unlikely to work is any more intelligent than his anti terrorism plans?
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Old 03-23-2016, 07:05 AM
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Even if we want to allow Mexican labor

free access across our border, the question today becomes; How do we know that only Mexicans are in the flood of illegal migrants?

I am definitely not advocating allowing illegal laborers into the country but I suspect it is also a conduit for those who wish to do us harm. A vigorous screening of everyone who crosses is in order. Observe the activities in Europe as an example of what can happen. I hate the idea of a wall since it will cost a bundle and eventually become ineffective but at least it can funnel migrants into a checkpoint.

Look, it is a sorry pass that we cannot allow anyone who wants to into this country but this is not the same world as 100 years ago. The idealistic "this country was built by immigrants" is a good sound bite but can be suicide unless radical Muslims are brought under control.

Any country that has no enforceable borders is not a country.
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  #6  
Old 03-23-2016, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by rocky raccoon View Post
Any country that has no enforceable borders is not a country.
So every other nation besides North Korea is "not a country"?
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rocky raccoon View Post
free access across our border, the question today becomes; How do we know that only Mexicans are in the flood of illegal migrants?

I am definitely not advocating allowing illegal laborers into the country but I suspect it is also a conduit for those who wish to do us harm. A vigorous screening of everyone who crosses is in order. Observe the activities in Europe as an example of what can happen. I hate the idea of a wall since it will cost a bundle and eventually become ineffective but at least it can funnel migrants into a checkpoint.

Look, it is a sorry pass that we cannot allow anyone who wants to into this country but this is not the same world as 100 years ago. The idealistic "this country was built by immigrants" is a good sound bite but can be suicide unless radical Muslims are brought under control.

Any country that has no enforceable borders is not a country.
we have a totally undefended 3500 mile border to the north. How do we prevent radical muslims from crossing anywhere from Canada into the US?

should we build another giant wall?
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:12 AM
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we have a totally undefended 3500 mile border to the north. How do we prevent radical muslims from crossing anywhere from Canada into the US?

should we build another giant wall?

Databases.


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Old 03-23-2016, 09:17 AM
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Databases.


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are we going to use databases as building blocks for the 2nd great wall of America?

How do we prevent a terrorist from walking into the woods from New Brunswick and appearing in Bangor Maine a few weeks later?
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:28 AM
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JB, we can't of course but the Mexican border is the wolf closest to our sled and the one that is the most easily violated.

Martureo, I cannot think of a country that will not turn back an individual that has no officially acceptable reason for entering. There are always smuggler's routes but the U.S.A. now has an officially stated policy to not enforce our southern border.
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:29 AM
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Can we all agree that borders define nations? I mean, without a geographical demarkation we don't know where countries join. We have that.

Having a border does not mean the border prevents the free-flow of goods and persons. This situation was tolerable for our first few hundred years of existence. Why change that? To me, that's the principle question.

There is no doubt whatsoever that businesses and individual citizens more or less benefit from a permeable border. As a private citizen I can go to the parking lot outside of any Home Depot or Lowes and hire illegals for day labor. They are cheaper, harder-working, and more dependable than the economically (but legal) equivalent citizen, in my experience.

Back when I worked for oil exploration we'd go to whatever local employment office and hire people to work. Probably over half had drug and/or alcohol addictions. With about half of the hires they'd work for a paycheck and then not come back. Those who did return after payday often came back walking drunk or druggies. They could cut survey line or carry cables and required near-constant supervision or they'd sit down and let other folks carry the load.

In the early 1980's we began to hire illegals (illegally!). Those guys worked hard all day and showed up on time, sober and ready to work every morning at 6:30 AM. I guess they sent most money home because despite per diem and a good hourly wage, they'd pile-up 4-5 in a cheap motel.

Given the comparison, who would you hire?
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
are we going to use databases as building blocks for the 2nd great wall of America?

How do we prevent a terrorist from walking into the woods from New Brunswick and appearing in Bangor Maine a few weeks later?
[sarcasm]Everybody knows Muslims come from hot climates. Canada is too cold for Muslims. Duh.[/sarcasm]

Every bit as credible a foreign policy as anything presented by Trump.
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:50 AM
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Can we all agree that borders define nations? I mean, without a geographical demarkation we don't know where countries join. We have that.
I think that's an interesting question. I'm just about finished with Imagined Communities and if there's one thing that he shows, it's that nation states are constructed in the imagination. Maps certainly play a role but the nation state is a socially imagined construct.

It strikes that one of the clear differences between 'modern nationalist' and people like ISIS is that the Caliphate is not an imagined nation-state. It's something quite different. It's more like what Christians call the Kingdom of God. And, now that I think about it, it's resurgence in our times is correlated with the growth of the multi-national corporation which also does not think of itself as limited by national boundaries.
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Old 03-23-2016, 10:07 AM
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I think that's an interesting question. I'm just about finished with Imagined Communities and if there's one thing that he shows, it's that nation states are constructed in the imagination. Maps certainly play a role but the nation state is a socially imagined construct.

It strikes that one of the clear differences between 'modern nationalist' and people like ISIS is that the Caliphate is not an imagined nation-state. It's something quite different. It's more like what Christians call the Kingdom of God. And, now that I think about it, it's resurgence in our times is correlated with the growth of the multi-national corporation which also does not think of itself as limited by national boundaries.
There are lots of people who believe themselves to be a nation within a nation (or nations). Kurds and Basques are excellent examples. Also as originally conceived by the US gov, American Indians, who even have demarcated borders.

But Kurds, Palestinians and Basques, etc, without national borders are not treated as nations by the international community of nations. It's worth noting that even WITH well-guarded and demarked borders, nations are often in conflict with neighbors, like Israel or the PRC in the South China Sea.

Historically, borders have been a constant source of revenue and conflict between nations. The ultra-libertarian believes that national borders artificially create conflict among people and therefore, should be removed.

That would be a wonderful experiment in our Mexico border. Instead of making it less permeable than it was historically, make it perfectly permeable. I'll bet that would thoroughly destabilize the Mexican oligarchy and ultimately result in the collapse of that government while only mildly impacting the USA. Hell, we could make them the 51st through 81st states.
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Old 03-23-2016, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
we have a totally undefended 3500 mile border to the north. How do we prevent radical muslims from crossing anywhere from Canada into the US?

should we build another giant wall?
That's what I was wondering. We also have three huge coast lines that are pretty open as well. If someone wants to come here they are coming. Look at the drug trade. All our efforts are stopping only a small portion of the drug trade. They are bring the stuff in via private subs now.

The walls will make it harder for labor to come over but looking at the adversity they are enduring to get here in the first place I font think the wall will stop them. Far cheaper to go after the employers but we song do that.

It a terrorist was ts to come in there is nothing we can do to stop it If Intel does not know about it.
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