Singaporeans want no part of the U.S. Navy plans

[chilcutt]

The U.S. has been talking about stationing more ships in Singapores Naval port, apparently in response to China creating confusion in open water shipping lanes.

Opposition to this move is growing among residents-as they are not interested in America's problems with China-and are concerned that China will penalise Singapore financially for buddying up to the U.S.

It appears to me that people in S.E. Asia are not fooled by the U.S.-and really wish they would keep their problems to themselves.

[Botnst]

Obama is merely offering hope and change. What could possibly go wrong?

[aklim]

Originally Posted by chilcutt

Opposition to this move is growing among residents-as they are not interested in America's problems with China-and are concerned that China will penalise Singapore financially for buddying up to the U.S.

It appears to me that people in S.E. Asia are not fooled by the U.S.-and really wish they would keep their problems to themselves.

Never appeared to me that the residents concerned themselves with such affairs. AFAIK, it is the govt that makes policy and not the people. If the govt sees benefit going this way, that is the way they go and the people could care less relative to here where the people are more concerned with matters as such. Based on past experience, the people know what they are told and what they are told is quite influenced by the govt. With the internet, it might not be as bad but there is still a strong govt influence as to what the truth is based on past experience.

I don't think it is so much a matter of who gets fooled by what. It is more a matter of whether the controlling people see a benefit in this direction or that.

[chilcutt]

Originally Posted by aklim

Never appeared to me that the residents concerned themselves with such affairs. AFAIK, it is the govt that makes policy and not the people. If the govt sees benefit going this way, that is the way they go and the people could care less relative to here where the people are more concerned with matters as such. Based on past experience, the people know what they are told and what they are told is quite influenced by the govt. With the internet, it might not be as bad but there is still a strong govt influence as to what the truth is based on past experience.

I don't think it is so much a matter of who gets fooled by what. It is more a matter of whether the controlling people see a benefit in this direction or that.

While it is true that the 'Garment' has the final decision in these matters, and in the past have rammed their ideals down the throats of residents-who have no choice but to accept- with the internet/blogs/forums now in existance- people are now speaking out.

The residents are the ones who feel the impact,up close/down on the streets. Not the Gov members who are insulated from any discomfort.

Aside from the political implications of siding with the U.S. against China, comes all of the social problems connected the U.S. military.

Drugs, drunken brawling, rape, an increase in Prostitutes who will come to serve the G.I.'s-are a Western problem that Singapore really doesnt need.

Better to just send those ships/fellas back to the Phillipines..a country that widely accepts the West's problems.

[chilcutt]

Originally Posted by Botnst

Obama is merely offering hope and change. What could possibly go wrong?

Dead-nuts on target. I am beginning to be very dis-illusioned by Obama.
During his SOTU address, he downright frightens me with the way he is jocking Isreal.

Gives Isreal cart-blanche..then asks to be a geust in Singapore..who arent on the best terms with Isreal.

Go figure.

[MBeige]

Originally Posted by chilcutt

Better to just send those ships/fellas back to the Phillipines..a country that widely accepts the West's problems.

Filipinos are also beginning to realize the same thing Singaporeans did and now do not want the US presence. However, those who realize this tend to be the educated citizens. Those who are in the provinces and are not as aware of the political ramifications of these events see the US the same way you portrayed them.

Then throw into the mix the government officials who corrupt not just the money but the minds as well.

And finally there has always been the issue of US foreign state policies crossing lines one too many times.

[aklim]

Originally Posted by chilcutt

While it is true that the 'Garment' has the final decision in these matters, and in the past have rammed their ideals down the throats of residents-who have no choice but to accept- with the internet/blogs/forums now in existance- people are now speaking out.

Drugs, drunken brawling, rape, an increase in Prostitutes who will come to serve the G.I.'s-are a Western problem that Singapore really doesnt need.

Better to just send those ships/fellas back to the Phillipines..a country that widely accepts the West's problems.

I don't really know if the indoctrination can be that easily reversed. When my wife was in school, even the political science professors were afraid of saying anything in class that can be considered anti-govt. If you look at THIS article, although dated back to the 96 era, it tells you that Nam and China have even sent deligations to learn how to police the internet. I believe I was working on my Dad's computer back in 03 and yahoo, even has a singapore version. HERE is a more current update. Still doesn't give me the impression that the sheep have overturned the situation that I knew. Also, the other thing that I know you are not familiar with is the subtle indoctrination during national service.

Like any hosting situation, there are always issues to contend with. It can be as simple as you messing up the toilet to what you describe. Sure, you bring a gift to my house but you also cause some inconvenience. Much like anything else, what I do tends to be influenced by political implications. If by befriending this guy who is say a pedophile or rapist, it upsets my wife, I might have to think long and hard if I want to pursue this friendship. Sure, I can do what I want but so can the wife. Sure, he can help me with my car projects but I also don't relish getting the cold shoulder from the wife whenever I have him over to fix the car. At the point when China was not the great trading partner it is and was the enemy of the govt, the answer was simple. Host as many fleets here as possible. Today, China is about as communist as capitalist, and now that the communist issue is over, well, the story is different. I depend on trade. I cannot piss off a major trading guy in the neighborhood.

[engatwork]

Obama is merely offering hope and change. What could possibly go wrong?

LOL - ain't that the truth.

[MTI]

Ask the population of Okinawa.

[LaRondo]

Originally Posted by chilcutt

The U.S. has been talking about stationing more ships in Singapores Naval port, apparently in response to China creating confusion in open water shipping lanes.

Opposition to this move is growing among residents-as they are not interested in America's problems with China-and are concerned that China will penalise Singapore financially for buddying up to the U.S.

It appears to me that people in S.E. Asia are not fooled by the U.S.-and really wish they would keep their problems to themselves.

Article reference, link?

[LaRondo]

Originally Posted by MTI

Ask the population of Okinawa.

What could they possibly have to complain about? Esp. since we saved an indefinite number of human lives with a couple of generous deliveries.

[aklim]

Originally Posted by chilcutt

Drugs, drunken brawling, rape, an increase in Prostitutes who will come to serve the G.I.'s-are a Western problem that Singapore really doesnt need.

Better to just send those ships/fellas back to the Phillipines..a country that widely accepts the West's problems.

Apparently you are not familiar with the R&R patterns of your draftees when they are on live fire exercises. In the artillery, we would be sure we weren't lost if we saw the mobile brothel at a location. There were also a couple of late night borrowing of cash and problem resolution when overseas. Being a draftee myself and typing up a few charges for my company and filing them for other companies, I can assure you that your servicemen weren't saints themselves when overseas.

Or Thailand or ROC which is where you guys go for exercises.

[Botnst]

What, young men want to get laid? You're joking!

[aklim]

Originally Posted by Botnst

What, young men want to get laid? You're joking!

Apparently the OP thinks his countrymen are saints when they go overseas for their live fire exercises. With ever draft whether artillery or infantry, you go for 2 overseas exercises. The highlight was getting laid and causing trouble and oh, battle readiness assessment. My buddy was involved in an "emergency loan" situation where the hat was passed around because someone was in trouble. Seemed to disappear by the next day and all was well. Maybe he got himself a pack of Marlboros which was what he wanted or he bribed somebody to forget about something. You decide.

[Hatterasguy]

So what?

From a strategic point of view the Middle East and Africa are more important and China knows this as well.

Asia is a side show. Were just playing with the Chinese like we do with the Russians and they know it, no one cares about Singapore.