To fat to fight, obesity epidemic a national security issue? - Page 2

aklim · #16 07-02-2012, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killer

Maybe you missed the fact that the earlier posters had without substantiation inferred that the entire 33% was due to excessive BMI and not the combination of that and no diploma. It was a rhetorical devise used to illuminate the falicy of their misconception, posed as a question rather than coming straight out and as aresult being accused of insulting someone possibly hurting some delicate feelings in the process.

And you might want to rethink your arguement because as I read it MacChrystal said the 33% would be ineligible and therefore excluded from military service, I take that to mean they would be excluded from even being a candidate so your hypothetical "what good would such a candidate be to the military", exercise is ridiculous on it's face.

Sounds like your military service was compulsery whereas since the early 70's the US is an all volunteer military, eligibility criteria separate the wheat from the chafe first step in the process.

Maybe not.

Well, if you want to split hairs, I can't help you. I used "candidate" in a general sense. I don't know what you call it. It's Sunday night so my lawyer charges more for legal advice. Next time, I'll consult him for the proper words to use, just for you.

And in this case, 33% is the chafe.

aklim · #17 07-02-2012, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pooka

My friend was not given a 'choice' in if he wanted to lose the weight. He was the property of the US Army and he was informed he was going to lose the weight.

The Army even had a 'fat farm' set up just for those that were having trouble knocking off the pounds. Once you went in you did not come out until the weight was gone. They even called it 'The Farm'.

He did put the weight back on, but he is now in his early 60's. He became a Career Man and as long as he was in the Army he was trim, trim, trim.

Could they lock him up if he didn't lose the weight?

What would happen if he didn't lose the weight?

layback40 · #18 07-02-2012, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Could they lock him up if he didn't lose the weight?

What would happen if he didn't lose the weight?

I guess they would stop feeding him!!!
You are what you eat !!

We have a similar problem on our side of the pond with over weight kids.
They are starting to see type 2 diabetes showing up in kids before their teens. Junk food & lack of exercise has a lot to do with it.

MS Fowler · #19 07-02-2012, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killer

That you don't recall seeing fat kids when you where young, logically leads you conclude that weren't fat kids then, rather than your memory is faulty? Unless of coarse your childhood was spent in Biafra or someplace similar!

My memory agrees with Bot. Skinny kids were the norm. We pretty much lived outside; nonstop physical activity. Today, the norm is nonstop eating with very limited physical activity---unless you include the exercise thumbs get in video games.
Maybe YOUR memory is faulty.

engatwork · #20 07-02-2012, 07:18 AM

A problem the Afghan army does not have.

TwitchKitty · #21 07-02-2012, 10:16 AM

The rich is gettin' richer and the poor is gettin' fatter. The riches wallets is gettin' fatter and the poors babies is getting fatter. Ever'thing is dat is. After a trip to juvie da feds don't want dem nohow.

aklim · #22 07-02-2012, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

I guess they would stop feeding him!!!

You are what you eat !!

We have a similar problem on our side of the pond with over weight kids.
They are starting to see type 2 diabetes showing up in kids before their teens. Junk food & lack of exercise has a lot to do with it.

Dunno if they can "fire" him or what.

Then I guess part of me is "kitty".

Kinda like saying that a dog is badly behaved, IMO. Go further back on the metaphorical leash and you might find the problem. Poor owner. So in this case, poor parents.

Air&Road · #23 07-02-2012, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pooka

My friend was not given a 'choice' in if he wanted to lose the weight. He was the property of the US Army and he was informed he was going to lose the weight.

The Army even had a 'fat farm' set up just for those that were having trouble knocking off the pounds. Once you went in you did not come out until the weight was gone. They even called it 'The Farm'.

He did put the weight back on, but he is now in his early 60's. He became a Career Man and as long as he was in the Army he was trim, trim, trim.

I also went into the Army in '68, in July. There weren't very many REALLY heavy people in Basic, but there DARN sure weren't any AFTER basic. With the heat and humidity at Fort Polk, Louisiana from July through September, I don't think anyone could have kept from losing weight and a lot of it.

I had to eat like a hog just to MAINTAIN my weight. Came out of there in really good shape though.

aklim · #24 07-02-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

I also went into the Army in '68, in July. There weren't very many REALLY heavy people in Basic, but there DARN sure weren't any AFTER basic. With the heat and humidity at Fort Polk, Louisiana from July through September, I don't think anyone could have kept from losing weight and a lot of it.

I had to eat like a hog just to MAINTAIN my weight. Came out of there in really good shape though.

So do you know what happens in the Farm like Pooka mentioned if you don't lose weight?

Air&Road · #25 07-02-2012, 10:48 AM

No Aklim. I was skinny as a rail to start with. I know that there were some special training outfits for such situations, but I think guys went into them after giving a regular training company a shot first. I fully expect that they fed them a particular way and ran the heck out of 'em. That's not to say they didn't run the heck out of us, but they shoved LOTS of food in front of all of us, so I would expect that would have been a big part of the difference.

I think there was more than one reason for not having fat soldiers then. As indicated early in the thread, there were many fewer overweight teenagers in those days, and the ones that were, seemed to be due to genetic obesity.

A friend of mine in high school was in this category, although it never slowed him down socially or anything. But I remember very well him coming away from his draft physical and they turned him down due to being overweight. He went on in later life to be EXTREMELY large. I spoke with him about 8 years ago and he had lost a bunch of weight in order to stay alive, but was still right at 300 pounds and he was not real tall.

I would expect that you wouldn't have to be a doctor to be able to tell that his issue was genetic rather than an uncontrollable desire for hamburgers, french fries and soda.

SO, I expect that there wasn't much need for such special training.

Also, when I think back on it, it wasn't necessarily the overweight people that had the most trouble in Basic Training. I grew up playing sports all the way through high school and even kept playing baseball between high school and the Army. It SEEMED that the people who had played sports had no trouble keeping up. The people that had never had to run and workout were the ones that were always the stragglers regardless of their size. They had just never had to do such things in their lives. It will be interesting to ask Pooka if his friend that went in very large and came out trim had played ball as a kid. I think that in extreme workout situations as we dealt with in Basic Training, it's probably as much or more mental as it is physical. You have to learn to block out the pain and exhaustion.

elchivito · #26 07-02-2012, 11:30 AM

Anyone who can't see that Americans are too fat is either an idiot or blind with nobody to read the news to them. I see it all the time in schools, there are fat kids everywhere. Not "baby fat" kids, obese kids.
One of my former school counselors retired from the district and went to work for our local hospital, counseling gravidly obese kids, most of whom are pre-teens. Keep in mind this is a town of 2500 people. She has a full roster of kids 5 days a week and gets paid 40 bucks an hour. These are kids who already have high blood pressure, cholesterol, are pre diabetic. Statistically many of them won't live as long as their parents. Who's picking up the tab for this service? Parents' health insurance where it exists and a combination of federal and state grants make up the difference. Whether you're personally overweight or not, we're ALL paying for this.

spdrun · #27 07-02-2012, 11:35 AM

It's not only high fructose corn syrup. "It's the development patterns, stupid." When you end up with "pods" of homes in planned unit developments (funny coincidence that the acronym is P.U.D.), where the only exit is to a 4- or 6-lane road, kids are stuck like in prison after school. Can't walk anywhere interesting, can't really bike either. Sit at home and play with the Wii, or hit up Fecebook.

Me, when I get married, my kids are either growing up in a city or a small college town, end of story.

aklim · #28 07-02-2012, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Anyone who can't see that Americans are too fat is either an idiot or blind with nobody to read the news to them. I see it all the time in schools, there are fat kids everywhere. Not "baby fat" kids, obese kids.

Who's picking up the tab for this service? Parents' health insurance where it exists and a combination of federal and state grants make up the difference. Whether you're personally overweight or not, we're ALL paying for this.

Whether we see or not, there was a report that we are the most obese in the world with, IIRC, 10 more obese than the next country.

Well, you champion universal care and not leaving them to their devices so don't cry. Until the day you are able and willing to say "That is your problem". you can't complain. You chose to pick up the load. A private insurance company can decide not to take your case or raise your premiums to cover the increased cost. Govt cannot.

spdrun · #29 07-02-2012, 12:32 PM

If morbidly obese people are un-covered, then their health care will likely be done via ER visits. The cost of which will either be passed on to paying customers via the hospital, or the taxpayer will somehow pick up the tab.

See also: EMTALA.

The solution to obesity is social engineering. Design new development in cities and towns so pedestrians, not cars come first. Play with zoning so that fresh, good quality foods are easily available. Ban obesogenic chemicals that mimic hormones.

Since66 · #30 07-02-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

I also went into the Army in '68, in July. There weren't very many REALLY heavy people in Basic, but there DARN sure weren't any AFTER basic. With the heat and humidity at Fort Polk, Louisiana from July through September, I don't think anyone could have kept from losing weight and a lot of it.

I had to eat like a hog just to MAINTAIN my weight. Came out of there in really good shape though.

My experience in Basic Training in June, July, and August ( @ Camp Chaffee, Ark) was the same. Those who were skinny or just slender had put on muscle after 90 days and those who were fat came out trim. 90 days of basic was the great equalizer.

I recommend it.

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