Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 09-28-2012, 08:26 AM
MS Fowler's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Littlestown PA ( 6 miles south of Gettysburg)
Posts: 2,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by engatwork View Post
Getting cotton to market was/is pretty important. Nowadays this field of cotton is competing on a worldwide market.
Much to the surprise of the South! They thought their cotton was indispensable, and would fund their war effort, but had tons of it sitting on the docks.

__________________
1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-28-2012, 09:11 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Its good to have a healthy sense of skepticism when looking at almost anything historical.
Remember that EVERYONE has an agenda, and a reason to write history. History can be taught as a means of giving people role models to emulate, and revere. History can also be taught to discredit the heroes of the past. Jefferson was one of the Founders of the USA. He wrote some great things. He was also a man of his time---it easy to project modern sensibilities onto past heroes and tarnish them--and by extension tarnish anything they did. We all tend to be a bit binary when viewing people--they are all good, or all bad--so when we tarnish a Founder--we tend to diminish all that the Founders did. If scholars can diminish the Founders, its easy to go on from there and diminish the very ideals of the USA. The great shinning city on a hill becomes less an example of the good, and more and more just another corrupt government to be replaced by another utopian dream.
I do not believe that this is "mere" history; it is part of an attack on the foundations of American exceptionalism. The fact that it may be true does not change the purpose that it is being exploited now.
To me the lesson to be learned is that although our founders and present day leaders have flaws they can still achieve greatness.
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-28-2012, 09:45 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
No woods here. We have toothless marsh Cajuns that'll make you squeal like a pig! En France!
if they make you uncomfortable or they are not your kind of people, may I suggest a move to New York.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-28-2012, 09:51 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky View Post
so you are saying that somewhere in the back woods of the south there will be a black guy who displays a stars and bars? Eventually you will find this man?

according to your article above, it asserts that there may have been as many as 65000 serving black troops in the confederate army. I find that hard to believe, and the method of arriving at that number is pretty shaky, considering the notoriously inaccurate numbers for even white confederate troops.

If there were so many black troops in confederate ranks then I find it hard to believe the confederates would have shot all the black troops in union uniform at fort pillow-

"The black troops, however, faced greater peril than white troops when captured by the Confederate Army. In 1863 the Confederate Congress threatened to punish severely officers of black troops and to enslave black soldiers. As a result, President Lincoln issued General Order 233, threatening reprisal on Confederate prisoners of war (POWs) for any mistreatment of black troops. Although the threat generally restrained the Confederates, black captives were typically treated more harshly than white captives. In perhaps the most heinous known example of abuse, Confederate soldiers shot to death black Union soldiers captured at the Fort Pillow, TN, engagement of 1864. Confederate General Nathan B. Forrest witnessed the massacre and did nothing to stop it."

source-
Black Soldiers in the Civil War

also, heres another source on black confederate soldiers-

Confederacy approves black soldiers — History.com This Day in History — 3/13/1865

"The idea of enlisting blacks had been debated for some time. Arming slaves was essentially a way of setting them free, since they could not realistically be sent back to plantations after they had fought. General Patrick Cleburne had suggested enlisting slaves a year before, but few in the Confederate leadership considered the proposal, since slavery was the foundation of Southern society. One politician asked, "What did we go to war for, if not to protect our property?" Another suggested, "If slaves will make good soldiers, our whole theory of slavery is wrong." Lee weighed in on the issue and asked the Confederate government for help. "We must decide whether slavery shall be extinguished by our enemies and the slaves be used against us, or use them ourselves." Lee asked that the slaves be freed as a condition of fighting, but the bill that passed the Confederate Congress on March 13, 1865, did not stipulate freedom for those who served.
The measure did nothing to stop the destruction of the Confederacy. Several thousand blacks were enlisted in the Rebel cause, but they could not begin to balance out the nearly 200,000 blacks who fought for the Union."
had Lincoln lived, his plan was to deport all blacks and send them back to Africa. and to think that at the time, black slaves thought Lincoln their friend.

interesting info about the then Commander in Chief:

American Stalin | Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:29 AM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
To me the lesson to be learned is that although our founders and present day leaders have flaws they can still achieve greatness.
Which means nothing. Your father's greatness is done. You need to achieve your own. Don't idolize the man. Decide if what the idea mentioned is good or not.
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:40 AM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
had Lincoln lived, his plan was to deport all blacks and send them back to Africa.

and to think that at the time, black slaves thought Lincoln their friend.
Two things. That might have been better than slavery here.

The question is whether the guy has a vested interest in your well being or not. Many are swayed by pretty speeches.
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:10 AM
JB3 JB3 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RI
Posts: 7,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
had Lincoln lived, his plan was to deport all blacks and send them back to Africa. and to think that at the time, black slaves thought Lincoln their friend.

interesting info about the then Commander in Chief:

American Stalin | Abraham Lincoln
nonsense.

thank you for linking that ridiculous confederacy apologist silliness.

Of course Lincoln was not an abolitionist, in fact, he stated dozens of occasions, as the silly link quotes, that he had no intention of altering southern states or their laws, he was in fact, a mild and moderate republican (a new party at that time). No doubt you will recall that he was equally hated in the north for not being an abolitionist, as well as hated in the south, for being even slightly moderate. His platform was to limit the practice of slavery in new territories vying for statehood, and to keep slavery from heading further west.

His ultimate goal was preservation of the union once southern states lost their heads and started to secede before he even took office, and being an extremely smart man, the emancipation proclamation was part of his goal of preservation.

What began as a war to hold the union together, became a war against the institution of slavery, and the emancipation proclamation was an excellent propaganda tool to that end. However, even used as propaganda, there is no question of it being the right thing to do.

That link is some of the most ridiculous stuff ive ever read, as far as explaining away what the war was about and attacking one of the greatest presidents this nation has ever had, it grieves me to see that you believe most of it.
__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

Last edited by JB3; 09-28-2012 at 11:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:18 AM
JB3 JB3 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RI
Posts: 7,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Its good to have a healthy sense of skepticism when looking at almost anything historical.
Remember that EVERYONE has an agenda, and a reason to write history. History can be taught as a means of giving people role models to emulate, and revere. History can also be taught to discredit the heroes of the past. Jefferson was one of the Founders of the USA. He wrote some great things. He was also a man of his time---it easy to project modern sensibilities onto past heroes and tarnish them--and by extension tarnish anything they did. We all tend to be a bit binary when viewing people--they are all good, or all bad--so when we tarnish a Founder--we tend to diminish all that the Founders did. If scholars can diminish the Founders, its easy to go on from there and diminish the very ideals of the USA. The great shinning city on a hill becomes less an example of the good, and more and more just another corrupt government to be replaced by another utopian dream.
I do not believe that this is "mere" history; it is part of an attack on the foundations of American exceptionalism. The fact that it may be true does not change the purpose that it is being exploited now.
well said.
Jefferson was a great American, and his opinions and world view was shaped by his period in history.
I don't find Washington that much different at all, another great American of the past.

Notice, he released his slaves when both his wife and he were dead and had no further use for them. We he an abolitionist, he would have released them far sooner, and started to pay them.

Both of these men would have no doubt sided with the south during the Civil war, but after a hundred years, understanding of the evils of slavery were more widespread.

Another thing we tend to forget is during the revolutionary war, many northern colonies had the practice of slavery as well, these men were nothing more than representative of the worldview of then.
__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:36 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
had Lincoln lived, his plan was to deport all blacks and send them back to Africa. and to think that at the time, black slaves thought Lincoln their friend.

interesting info about the then Commander in Chief:

American Stalin | Abraham Lincoln
This was an idea he had early in his presidency after talking with black leaders he found no takers. None of them wanted to go to Africa. Most of them were born and raised here so it was not home to them.

He abandoned that idea and moved on toward emancipation at a rate that his electorate would support.
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:56 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky View Post
nonsense.

thank you for linking that ridiculous confederacy apologist silliness.

Of course Lincoln was not an abolitionist, in fact, he stated dozens of occasions, as the silly link quotes, that he had no intention of altering southern states or their laws, he was in fact, a mild and moderate republican (a new party at that time). No doubt you will recall that he was equally hated in the north for not being an abolitionist, as well as hated in the south, for being even slightly moderate. His platform was to limit the practice of slavery in new territories vying for statehood, and to keep slavery from heading further west.

His ultimate goal was preservation of the union once southern states lost their heads and started to secede before he even took office, and being an extremely smart man, the emancipation proclamation was part of his goal of preservation.

What began as a war to hold the union together, became a war against the institution of slavery, and the emancipation proclamation was an excellent propaganda tool to that end. However, even used as propaganda, there is no question of it being the right thing to do.

That link is some of the most ridiculous stuff ive ever read, as far as explaining away what the war was about and attacking one of the greatest presidents this nation has ever had, it grieves me to see that you believe most of it.
If you didn't like this link:

American Stalin | Abraham Lincoln

then please do not read this one:

:: America's Caesar ::
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 09-28-2012, 12:15 PM
JB3 JB3 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RI
Posts: 7,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
If you didn't like this link:

American Stalin | Abraham Lincoln

then please do not read this one:

:: America's Caesar ::
what do we have here, a link that says he-

A. was despised by huge numbers of his contemporaries
B. Didn't like church and may not have been religious
C. told vulgar stories
D. pissed off Springfields christian leaders because he didn't like church

whats your point?
Looks to me like you found a link that describes a regular guy, yet places evil on him because he succeeded in keeping the union together.

The greatest tragedy for the south that happened was his assassination, as it ushered in a vengeful period of reconstruction and punishment. If you recall, Lincoln wanted to welcome back the southern states with open arms, to return them to their place in the union without acting as if they ever left. Again, he was a moderate, not an extremist.

from his april 11, 1865 speech about Louisiana-

"We all agree that the seceded States, so called, are out of their proper practical relation with the Union; and that the sole object of the government, civil and military, in regard to those States is to again get them into that proper practical relation. I believe it is not only possible, but in fact, easier, to do this, without deciding, or even considering, whether these states have even been out of the Union, than with it. Finding themselves safely at home, it would be utterly immaterial whether they had ever been abroad. Let us all join in doing the acts necessary to restoring the proper practical relations between these states and the Union; and each forever after, innocently indulge his own opinion whether, in doing the acts, he brought the States from without, into the Union, or only gave them proper assistance, they never having been out of it. "
__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 09-28-2012, 01:45 PM
MS Fowler's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Littlestown PA ( 6 miles south of Gettysburg)
Posts: 2,278
Exhibit #1 as to the value of links.
Links are only as good as the information they contain. Linking to false information does not give it credibility.
__________________
1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-28-2012, 01:48 PM
Botnst's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: There castle.
Posts: 44,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
if they make you uncomfortable or they are not your kind of people, may I suggest a move to New York.
No banjo music.

Dueling Banjos Deliverance - YouTube
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-28-2012, 02:42 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropnosky View Post
what do we have here, a link that says he-

A. was despised by huge numbers of his contemporaries
B. Didn't like church and may not have been religious
C. told vulgar stories
D. pissed off Springfields christian leaders because he didn't like church

whats your point?
Looks to me like you found a link that describes a regular guy, yet places evil on him because he succeeded in keeping the union together.

The greatest tragedy for the south that happened was his assassination, as it ushered in a vengeful period of reconstruction and punishment. If you recall, Lincoln wanted to welcome back the southern states with open arms, to return them to their place in the union without acting as if they ever left. Again, he was a moderate, not an extremist.

from his april 11, 1865 speech about Louisiana-

"We all agree that the seceded States, so called, are out of their proper practical relation with the Union; and that the sole object of the government, civil and military, in regard to those States is to again get them into that proper practical relation. I believe it is not only possible, but in fact, easier, to do this, without deciding, or even considering, whether these states have even been out of the Union, than with it. Finding themselves safely at home, it would be utterly immaterial whether they had ever been abroad. Let us all join in doing the acts necessary to restoring the proper practical relations between these states and the Union; and each forever after, innocently indulge his own opinion whether, in doing the acts, he brought the States from without, into the Union, or only gave them proper assistance, they never having been out of it. "
Lincoln was never interested in settling the problem peaceably PRIOR to the onset of hostilities, he wanted war and war was what he got. the Confederacy had wanted to leave the Union on peaceful terms but Lincoln made it clear that he would put a gun in their mouth if they tried it. He was a man of war, not of peace. Actions speak louder than words. Go down their and kill those Southerners for their own good. To govern means to control and control comes via using the only tool a government has in it's arsenal; Vi Metuque - Force and Fear

Violence perpetrated by Americans against other Americans in the name of "preserving the Union". Even after Lee surrendered, the Union continued the violence against Native Americans. Here's the pen, either sign the contract or we'll kill you. Threats, duress and coercion. Third party interlopers trespassing on a State's right to self-govern.

Lincoln; a man who championed another man's right to be left alone....NOT.

THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF THE CIVIL WAR:
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 09-28-2012, 02:48 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
Lincoln was never interested in settling the problem peaceably PRIOR to the onset of hostilities, he wanted war and war was what he got. the Confederacy had wanted to leave the Union on peaceful terms but Lincoln made it clear that he would put a gun in their mouth if they tried it. He was a man of war, not of peace. Actions speak louder than words. Go down their and kill those Southerners for their own good. To govern means to control and control comes via using the only tool a government has in it's arsenal; Vi Metuque - Force and Fear

Violence perpetrated by Americans against other Americans in the name of "preserving the Union". Even after Lee surrendered, the Union continued the violence against Native Americans. Here's the pen, either sign the contract or we'll kill you. Threats, duress and coercion. Third party interlopers trespassing on a State's right to self-govern.

Lincoln; a man who championed another man's right to be left alone....NOT.

THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF THE CIVIL WAR:
Here all this time I thought the south seceded and declared war on the north. I'm wrong about that?

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page