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t walgamuth 09-27-2012 07:26 AM

Thomas Jefferson unveiled
 
There is a long article in the new Smithsonian about Jefferson and his attitudes about slavery. Although he wrote eloquently about how men are created equal he never freed his slaves and had them beaten when they did not work hard enough....even young boys ten years old.

He wrote to friends about the economics of it saying basically that one of his chief forms of wealth building was the birth rate among his slaves which created more young ones than the ones who died of old age.

He also borrowed a huge sum of money using his slaves as collateral to rebuild Monticello in his later years. Upon his death they were all sold off to pay off mortgages, splitting up families in some cases seven and eight different ways.

George Washington on the other hand freed his slaves on or near his death but gets no credit for it historically.

Disappointing.

Air&Road 09-27-2012 07:40 AM

Very interesting contrast between a strong liberal of their time (Jefferson) and a strong conservative of their time (Washington.)

Thanks for posting this Tom.:)

engatwork 09-27-2012 08:09 AM

Thank goodness George was an Independent:).

t walgamuth 09-27-2012 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3018596)
Very interesting contrast between a strong liberal of their time (Jefferson) and a strong conservative of their time (Washington.)

Thanks for posting this Tom.:)

I should have known you would try to politicize it in todays terms.

Air&Road 09-27-2012 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 3018612)
I should have known you would try to politicize it in todays terms.


How can it NOT be?:confused: Washington was a conservative and Jefferson was a liberal. Very simple.

BTW Jim, when I point out that someone is a conservative or a liberal, I am speaking of their ideology, not their party affiliation.:) I personally am an extreme conservative which unfortunately usually gives me the only choice as a Republican.:pukeface: If libertarians had a chance of winning I would probably be voting libertarian, although I don't agree with them on every issue. Since they have no chance, I refuse to waste my vote.

Botnst 09-27-2012 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 3018592)
There is a long article in the new Smithsonian about Jefferson and his attitudes about slavery. Although he wrote eloquently about how men are created equal he never freed his slaves and had them beaten when they did not work hard enough....even young boys ten years old.

He wrote to friends about the economics of it saying basically that one of his chief forms of wealth building was the birth rate among his slaves which created more young ones than the ones who died of old age.

He also borrowed a huge sum of money using his slaves as collateral to rebuild Monticello in his later years. Upon his death they were all sold off to pay off mortgages, splitting up families in some cases seven and eight different ways.

George Washington on the other hand freed his slaves on or near his death but gets no credit for it historically.

Disappointing.

Also, Washington opened schools at his own expense to educate slave for literacy and a trade. He set aside pensions and quarters for his elderly slaves no longer able to work. He openly defied a law passed in the Virginia legislature forbidding education of slaves. Ironically, Jefferson and Madison (IIRC) were two of the supporters of that law.

Washington's will that the slaves be freed upon the death of Martha caused Martha no small measure of discomfort as she feared the slaves might become impatient for freedom and hurry her along.

t walgamuth 09-27-2012 08:24 AM

Good for George.

Sounds like Washington was a liberal himself.

And Jefferson not so much.;)

Air&Road 09-27-2012 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 3018620)
Good for George.

Sounds like Washington was a liberal himself.

And Jefferson not so much.;)


Not at all! Jefferson was the extreme liberal of his day. Matches perfectly with today's liberal thinking. Today the liberals enslave the poor people with welfare and food stamps instead of strict ownership and torture.

elchivito 09-27-2012 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3018625)
Not at all! Jefferson was the extreme liberal of his day. Matches perfectly with today's liberal thinking. Today the liberals enslave the poor people with welfare and food stamps instead of strict ownership and torture.

OMFG He's serious...

aklim 09-27-2012 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 3018592)
There is a long article in the new Smithsonian about Jefferson and his attitudes about slavery. Although he wrote eloquently about how men are created equal he never freed his slaves and had them beaten when they did not work hard enough....even young boys ten years old.

He wrote to friends about the economics of it saying basically that one of his chief forms of wealth building was the birth rate among his slaves which created more young ones than the ones who died of old age.

He also borrowed a huge sum of money using his slaves as collateral to rebuild Monticello in his later years. Upon his death they were all sold off to pay off mortgages, splitting up families in some cases seven and eight different ways.

George Washington on the other hand freed his slaves on or near his death but gets no credit for it historically.

Disappointing.

I am not disappointed since I believe that people say many things, believe in few of them and do even fewer. What's so disappointing? That people are stupid enough to believe pretty words? Not news, is it? It's all in the PR.

t walgamuth 09-27-2012 10:45 AM

Since you have no expectations from people you never have to experience dissappointment.

aklim 09-27-2012 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 3018729)
Since you have no expectations from people you never have to experience dissappointment.

EXACTLY. Lowered expectations, lowered disappointments. You can only give me a pleasant surprise when you exceed it. Should you live up to it, I expect nothing less. If I have high expectations of you, meeting it is expected and if you fall below, I am disappointed. This way, you can't disappoint me.

I'm sorry. Is experiencing disappointment a good thing? I have to admit that I am not a masochist so I can't comment on that. Are you saying you like to be kicked in the shorts or what?

t walgamuth 09-27-2012 11:31 AM

I like to trust people and believe they can and will do good most of the time.

aklim 09-27-2012 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 3018774)
I like to trust people and believe they can and will do good most of the time.

As do I but unfortunately, most of the time, it is a disappointment. Unlike you, I am sick of disappointment hoping that the fantasy is true.

I do like NOT being hopeful and have my hopes dashed, like in this case. Less heartbreak that way. More preparedness also. Win-win when you prepare for the worst.

Had you adopted the same policy would you be disappointed with Jefferson? Would you be disappointed that Washington that did more wasn't rewarded because people believe the pretty words? Feel free to answer honestly.

t walgamuth 09-27-2012 01:41 PM

If adopting your attitude was the only solution to my problems in life I would slit my wrists first.

As for Jefferson and Washington, one can only read the history that is written. I wasn't there.

I never had much of a negative feeling toward George W. so no real change there. Unfortunately the historians til now have whitewashed Jefferson's actions toward his slaves for their own unknown reasons.

OTOH in the article it does portray Jefferson as perhaps being a more considerate master to his slaves than most, I believe. In the end though, he was unable to quit his addiction to slave labor and so his legacy will now reflect that more accurately than it has in the past. The institution was pretty much a part of the upper crust culture at the time so it carried no negative social stigma for him.


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