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  #16  
Old 01-18-2014, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Did they? Not sure myself. Would it have been possible to drop the worst rudder out of the boat and attempt sailing with the remaining rudder? Could a jury rigged rudder be made for a boat that large? Must have been a tough decision to abandon a new boat.

HELICOPTER EVACUATION: Abandoning Be Good Too | Sailfeed
It's hard to "drop the rudder" as the rudder post is what fills the hole created for the rudder. Without the rudder there is a hole the size of the rudder post in the bottom of the boat. Better to leave it there and freely swinging. The other rudder was badly bent- which means steering ability was seriously diminished. No electrical power (which means manual bilge pumping only), seriously compromised steering, serious leaks in multiple areas, one engine on a catamaran and in the open ocean not able to make land... time to abandon ship while within rescue reach is IMPO.

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  #17  
Old 01-18-2014, 01:57 PM
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Having made our arrangements, we treated ourselves to a little pre-abandonment party shortly after sunset, broke our dry-ship rule, and opened up some fine red wine. The mood was subdued, but upbeat. Gunther and Doris, in spite of the bitter disappointment of having to give up this boat they’d been looking forward to taking possession of for two years, were very philosophical about their situation, were very grateful no lives were at stake, and together we all laughed about the problems we’d confronted during our passage.


I'm wonder how the CG rescuers felt when they read this.

Semper Peratus, Gentlemen.
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  #18  
Old 01-18-2014, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dynalow View Post
Having made our arrangements, we treated ourselves to a little pre-abandonment party shortly after sunset, broke our dry-ship rule, and opened up some fine red wine. The mood was subdued, but upbeat. Gunther and Doris, in spite of the bitter disappointment of having to give up this boat they’d been looking forward to taking possession of for two years, were very philosophical about their situation, were very grateful no lives were at stake, and together we all laughed about the problems we’d confronted during our passage.


I'm wonder how the CG rescuers felt when they read this.

Semper Peratus, Gentlemen.
Utterly unacceptable for professional crew to drink while waiting for rescue. Clear grounds for action against any license they hold.
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  #19  
Old 01-18-2014, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
It's hard to "drop the rudder" as the rudder post is what fills the hole created for the rudder. Without the rudder there is a hole the size of the rudder post in the bottom of the boat. Better to leave it there and freely swinging. The other rudder was badly bent- which means steering ability was seriously diminished. No electrical power (which means manual bilge pumping only), seriously compromised steering, serious leaks in multiple areas, one engine on a catamaran and in the open ocean not able to make land... time to abandon ship while within rescue reach is IMPO.
I was thinking that while the rudder post hole would need to be plugged, it was likely above the waterline. Don't know how hard it would have been to get one out or how a jury rigged rudder would have performed with the existing rudders still in place. It did make me think about the advantages of a ketch rigged boat in these kind of conditions where the mizzen sail can be used like an 'air rudder'.
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  #20  
Old 01-18-2014, 08:59 PM
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Well a few things:

1. The boat was not really an offshore boat. I have sailed a slightly larger cat offshore for lots of miles, and I can tell you our rudder set up is very, very robust and that simply would never happen. If it did we could affect steering with our motors, or at worst with a drogue. Also the fact that it was leaking around those silly large European styled windows shows that it was a lagoon boat.


2. They left to late and chose a hard path down south. They should have sailed in November for Bermuda than south. They chose to beat in the Gulf stream which is stupid.

I was in poor conditions off Curacao, we got up to at least 13 knots going down waves and we measured them by looking up, 15ft at night maybe? They were abeam which was challenging at night because you had to helm by feel, ie if the hole felt huge you had to steer into it. Our Voyage 440 did fine, and was more than up to the conditions. Just looking at the pictures of that boats tillers they are a light weight joke compared to the Voyage's steering gear.

We also had charging problems coming back from Cuba which happens. We left both Yanmar diesels running all night as a result. Those are very durable motors, once they start if you give them fuel they won't shut down.

They ran into the similar problems to guys who try to sail light duty bay boats off shore, like Beneteau's or other assorted flexible flyers. We were in port with a French guy who had the gooseneck on his Jeanneau 52 blow apart because it couldn't handle the pressure of the winds offshore.

This is a good example of what happens when you take a lightly built coastal boat offshore at a poor time of year. This boat should have went down the ICW in August, not done this.
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Last edited by Hatterasguy; 01-18-2014 at 09:09 PM.
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  #21  
Old 01-19-2014, 01:40 AM
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Funny I considered a drouge as well. Just was concerned about the drag and their probable need to go against prevailing winds no matter where they landed up in north America. This model was offered with optional dagger type board or alternative optional lee boards when I read about the model. Without one or the other I just suspected it might have been unworkable.


I want to add this just in case there is a reader that does not know what a drogue is as well. Basically a drag type device on the end of a rope. If a hull or hulls has enough presence in the water to reduce being blown sideways to a greater than lesser extent. You might gain steerage by the position the drag is placed on the boat. Usually except when running off before a bad storm you need one with quite a presence in the water.

This further may reduce speed making control of the boat almost if not impossible. It is simply anything that provides resistance to movement through the water. A plain rope of adequate length may be enough when running before a storm. Yet almost totally useless in weaker conditions. A form of small underwater parachute is highly resistant providing lots of drag. I felt the cat might have benifited from one of those to control the steering but at the same time acts as a brake too much to be practical. Also it must be strong to survive.

I also did not want to comment too much on multihulls versus single or mono hulls. It shows my age as I was active when the multihulls first started to make an appearance. Today it is almost beyond belief what is singlehandedly raced around the world. Sixty foot single relatively light wide hulls running at great speed. Plus the sailor has to get some sleep. Pushing the boat as hard as he can all the time. With my past sailing experiences including some storms to me it seems almost impossible what they actually do.

Last edited by barry12345; 01-19-2014 at 02:19 AM.
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  #22  
Old 01-19-2014, 09:24 AM
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Why wouldn’t someone have a drink or two while waiting for rescue? Is there any form of law that prohibits it?
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  #23  
Old 01-19-2014, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by link View Post
Why wouldn’t someone have a drink or two while waiting for rescue? Is there any form of law that prohibits it?
It's probably fine for the owners and guests, but not for the hired help....
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  #24  
Old 01-19-2014, 01:42 PM
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Why wouldn’t someone have a drink or two while waiting for rescue? Is there any form of law that prohibits it?
Hard to believe this is a real question.
Being impaired effects the rescue crew as well as yourself and others aboard. At any time things could get worse- do you want to be impaired- or have crew mates impaired on a sinking boat? Seriously?
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  #25  
Old 01-19-2014, 03:20 PM
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Lots of discussion of the event over here, including trying to divest the boat of one of the rudders.

First Alpha 42 Abandoned on Maiden Voyage - Page 2 - Multihull Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums
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  #26  
Old 01-19-2014, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MTUpower View Post
Hard to believe this is a real question.
Being impaired effects the rescue crew as well as yourself and others aboard. At any time things could get worse- do you want to be impaired- or have crew mates impaired on a sinking boat? Seriously?
For me that would be inversely proportional to the likelihood of survival....

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  #27  
Old 01-19-2014, 04:46 PM
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It almost staggers me that people that have been through and experienced real hard weather. Would even consider taking something like this offshore with all its massive glass areas. Not even having some engineered solution to cover those areas in with something really strong.

To me with my limited experience it is more like a sailing houseboat by design. In my mind it looks more like a dock queen than a practical offshore safe conveyance. Even filled with water and not sunk. The mass then is probably so great then the forces of nature might tear it apart.

Last edited by barry12345; 01-19-2014 at 05:18 PM.
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  #28  
Old 01-19-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Lots of discussion of the event over here, including trying to divest the boat of one of the rudders.

First Alpha 42 Abandoned on Maiden Voyage - Page 2 - Multihull Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums
A lot of information there. A little hard to follow for a sailing boat ignoramous like my self.
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  #29  
Old 01-19-2014, 05:11 PM
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One of the sailors answers:

BE GOOD TOO: Answering Critics | Sailfeed
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  #30  
Old 01-19-2014, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by barry12345 View Post
It almost staggers me that people that have been through and experienced real hard weather. Would even consider taking something like this offshore with all its massive glass areas. Not even having some engineered solution to cover those areas in with something really strong.

To me with my limited experience it is more like a sailing houseboat by design. In my mind it looks more like a dock queen than a practical offshore safe conveyance. Even filled with water and not sunk. The mass then is probably so great then the forces of nature might tear it apart.
A lot of people take inappropriate vessels offshore and don't get into trouble, these guys got unlucky.

Although if they picked their trip more carefully, ICW in June they would more likely than not have been fine.

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