During my 63 years on the planet I always seem to come back to the subject of quality. I have been involved in a varity of of enterprizes some that worked and made a profit and some that flopped .

If I look back over the different projects that I was involved in I can say the ones that made profit (and were fun to do) involved a dedication
to quality and not quanity or gimmicks . Have we lost that or will quality win in the end.........

William Rogers........

I remember my father telling me to always buy the best quality item I could. When I got out on my own, I bought a Nikon F2 and he asked my why I bought such an expensive camera. I told him why and I still have the camera after almost 30 years. I also have newer cameras, a Canon G2 which is currently a paperweight due to bent CF pins, and a replacement G5. I'm going to send the G2 in for repair, it's a nice camera.

I'll keep the 300SE for a long time too. I should be out of the body shop this week.

__________________
Regards

Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.

Making the profit is what has brought down the quality, but there is still a market for quality. It’s mainly in Japan and Europe though. I’m blown away by how much better the quality of clothing is in Europe. High Grade smoking pipes head straight to Japan, at huge prices. High quality vinyl is still being pressed in Japan and Europe – here it’s custom reissues that start about $40 and can go right off the charts. Housing and electronics and everything just seems more and more like cheap s**t to me, but that’s just to keep it affordable. Our cars pre 87 are great deals for the most part and a lot of well cared for older things seem to be the best ways to find quality. Wonderful old mechanical film cameras can be found for a song compared to some cheap plastic POS digital junk. Soon quality will mean Made in China just as it became Made in Japan. There’s some real fine medical equipment still Made in Germany, but we quit making Packard’s a long time ago. Buy it, use it, throw it away, buy a new model – it’s the US way – this is the last generation that will accumulate useable good to pass down. That’s the old world way of accumulating wealth, and I think we’ve lost it.

__________________
89 300E
79 240D
72 Westy
63 Bug sunroof
85 Jeep CJ7
86 Chevy 6.2l diesel PU

"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
Marcus Aurelius

A lot of it is market driven. How much quality in the classic sense of the word do you need to satisfy someone for the duration of a 2-year lease or 30/5 ARM? Neither purchasers nor manufacturers expect anything to become an heirloom. Bad news for the secondary market.

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

To achieve the level of quality found overseas requires American management to change how they operate. Overseas goods are higher quality because they adopted Demming's theories of Statistical Process Control along with the idea of elimination of departmental organizational structures in favor of process-oriented teams who constantly manage, monitor and improve processes by using statistical methods instead of the latest management paperback book gimmick (Anybody still a 1 minute Manager?). His philosophy of Continous Improvement is the backbone management philosophy for all these overseas companies you see making high-quality product. Many American companies are attempting to implement these ideas now, but management's outdated conceptions of how companes should be organized and operated are an enormous barrier in this country. Each mid level martinet's petty power base is threatened by these changes and they will fight them tooth and nail. At best, we get a bastardized version of CIP here. Aiding these outdated managers are computers, which make inheritantly inefficient processes seem more efficient for a little while, which delays the implemtation of newer processes that would result in higher quality products. Labor unions as they currently exist, with an inability to be flexible enough to change, are also a huge barrier. Both then blame the other. It all adds up to rather depressing propects for American industry.

By the way, that is the essence of Demming's conclusions.

Been awhile since I've heard Demmings name touted anywhere. He and his "methods" were real big in this area in machine shops in the early 90's. That's when Boeing got on the quality improvement band wagon, and made all their suppliers comply with their requirements. ISO 9000 was all the rage. We had meetings, started quality improvement teams, watched films, met with their QA gurus. It was a mad house! Cost the company I was working for at the time thousands of $$! Now look where they(Boeing) are. Getting shoved aside by Airbus.
This country has been lazy for too long about quality. If we don't figure it out, we'll be left in the dust. I see the struggle up close and personal being in a manufacturing industry. We have a hard time competing. The shop I work at now was started and ran by a real "buy american" type guy. He bought only american made machines. He's gone now(retired), and we're buying foreign made machines so we can get good dependable equipment. The american made stuff is crap! Needs constant maintenance and replacement parts. Pretty sad.
And trying to keep our people on top of what they're making on the machines is a constant struggle. There's too many that don't much care. They come in, put in thier hours, and collect their check. Hard to find machinists that care, or have any real skills.

__________________
past MB rides:
'68 220D
'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
'06 Lexus RX330
'93 Ford F-250
'96 Corvette
'99 Polaris 700 RMK sled
2011 Polaris Assault
'86 Yamaha TT350(good 'ol thumper)

Not to derail the thread, but a similar plea could be made for customer service.

It's about getting back to basics, with respect to what made one's name in the first place - this could be quality of product, quality of service, or value of product/service. Many successful companies lose sight of these essential ingredients, typically driven by greed and the need to expand.

With respect to customer service, it is a rule of thumb that it is much easier to keep an existing customer happy than to win back a dissatisfied one. With service-oriented companies, customer service is what makes or breaks their name. Sometimes I come across newhires of such companies, who do not realize this, and just come to the conclusion that this principle is not properly communicated down the chain.

This is what keeps us coming back to our favorite/trusted mechanic, barber or restaurant, even if we've moved away from the area.

ISO 9000+ is still the rage.

Looking at Boeing's problems with unions, they would be an excellent example of the half-measure implentation of CIP and its successor TQM I am refering to. I've also read their problems are as much politcal as they are anything to do with quality issues - our friendly policy towards Taiwan implemented by the Bush admin has pissed off our biggest potential new market for airplanes, China. Couple that with the international unpopularity of the Iraq war, and your going to be setting things up quite nicely for the French, who by the way just sold a huge amount of airplanes to the Chinese. In addition, in one sentence you infer it was a waste of time and money to implement CIS, then later you say all the American equipment you get is crap. Since most American corporations do not use CIP and TQM and foriegn companies are noted for it, you may be making my best argument for me.

One company I worked for went from 700 million GR to 2.8 billion GR, maintaing about the same numbers of employees. Their stock has quadrupled. They credited all of it to fanatical adoption of CIP and TQM. A whole lot of managers had to get fired to make it happen. Out of curiosty, what became of the company you worked for that implemented TQM?

Part of the TQM philosophy is that anything a company does has to be high quality, not just the product itself.

Yeah, the biggest prob we have in this country is our mindset. We're too much at the mercy of inter company politics and unions. My brother was at Boeing when all this stuff got started, and he said it was the biggest bunch of hypocracy he ever saw. They'd all get the hype about TQM, but the middle management wouldn't implement much of it. If an employee would try to "take ownership" of his job (you know, that whole "empowerment" thing) and try and make improvements, it very seldom got approved, or just got lost in all the red tape. I could go on and on. Mostly all they did it seemed was generate more paperwork. Our QA department was snowed under!
The shop I was at at the time also was the major supplier of machined parts for Tektronix Instruments, and they got on the band wagon at about the same time as Boeing did. They actually seemed to do it right though. In fact they were more helpful to us then Boeing ever was. Meeting their criteria made us more than meet Boeings' requirements.
I left that shop about 8 years ago, but last I heard they were still going strong. But I know when I left, the dust had really settled, and we didn't hear much about it all. Seems once you "comply" on paper, it's pretty much buisness as usual with Boeing. Tektronix was tough though. I know they made us a better company all around.
I left and went in search of a shop that didn't do any Boeing work(hard to find in this area) and have had far less headaches since. None of our current customers require their suppliers to be ISO 9000 complient(yet). But I keep warning the owners that the day is coming. Our biggest customer is Synrad Laser, and they are a world wide supplier of Co2 lasers. So I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they start pounding their fist on the table about ISO 9000 too. This shop will really have a tough time meeting the requirements. Our QA department is a joke, and the owners have very little clue what is looming in the horizon. They've never even heard of Demming.

__________________
past MB rides:
'68 220D
'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
'06 Lexus RX330
'93 Ford F-250
'96 Corvette
'99 Polaris 700 RMK sled
2011 Polaris Assault
'86 Yamaha TT350(good 'ol thumper)

It’s the end game again. We’re transitioning from a regulated economy that held back the equity market, to a less regulated one that allows profits to grow more rapidly and create an equity boom. Microchip technology has been like throwing gas on what may have been a manageable fire. The real money is in the finance and equity markets now. Keep growing and live off of the take out loan – How many stores can Walgreen’s open? If they ever stop and need to finance debt with sales profits they’re toast. Same for Home Depot and even the poster child of quality, Tiffany’s. When you run out of ways to produce quarterly profits you have to spend more to advertise and push lower quality, cut wages and benefits, find cheaper ways of doing everything. That’s balanced by a government that doesn’t need to make a profit, but runs out of sources for revenue. For now this has resulted in a lot of artificial wealth that will either bust by a decline in equity or be burnt up by inflation. In time though the new quality will rise from the ashes. It’s a super cycle – nothing that can be fixed in four or eight years. I really do see the glass half full. I also see China holding the pitcher.

__________________
89 300E
79 240D
72 Westy
63 Bug sunroof
85 Jeep CJ7
86 Chevy 6.2l diesel PU

"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
Marcus Aurelius

We are in a time when most manufactured goods are designed with "planned obsolecence." That is understandable when technology cycles much faster than ever before. Buying patterns seem to indicate that Americans really don't want or need a DVD player, personal computer, cell phone, or cars that last years and years, or pay the price to build them.

I agree with that to a point. I disagree with the car part. Toyota and Honda are doing a booming buisness selling what are mostly well built and dependable cars. So there must be something left of the desire to own quality. But alot of our daily life is spent using things that don't need a long life as you say. On the other hand, my previous computer was a Compaq. It wasn't dependable, so I didn't buy another one when the time came to upgrade. I dunno. I guess I was brainwashed by a dad that demanded quality and dependability in everything he bought. Maybe each generation has a diluted sense of what that is though.
BTW, he was a Boeing engineer that saw all that TQM and ISO9000 stuff as B.S. For him, what it was all trying to achieve was a part of his way of doing things already. "If you're going to do something, do it right, or don't do it at all" was pounded into my skull growing up.

__________________
past MB rides:
'68 220D
'68 220D(another one)
'67 230
'84 SD
Current rides:
'06 Lexus RX330
'93 Ford F-250
'96 Corvette
'99 Polaris 700 RMK sled
2011 Polaris Assault
'86 Yamaha TT350(good 'ol thumper)

Part of it is our overreliance on hardware and gadgetry to solve problems. Like I said before, it only makes the inefficient seem more efficeint, usually about as long as it takes a manager to get his bonus. The real problems in America are systems problems. We have to get our software to do more and be easier for for everyone to use, and we have to get it honed in on being more specific to dealing with the problems presented by a given processes instead of the one size fits all "configurable" software of today. We have to be more willing to junk entire exisiting systems that produce low quality product instead of taking the bandaid approach. If a particular process produces a low-quality product, management should be spending some of their time designing an entirely new process instead of walking around looking for places they can patch the tire.

I think one of the most potent concepts I saw in action in TQM shops were Re-Engineering Teams, composed of people who could make the kinds of decisions and get the money to replace processes- these teams interlocked with the mid level manager's more detail specific Process Reengineering Teams. Re-engineering and Demming's CIP are really two different philosophies, but used in tandem by savvy top management, business processes can be defined as those needing a Continous Improvement Program, and those needing Re-engineering. Done well, it leads to a much better way to allocate resources towards improving product quality. It think this is a much better approach than pure CIP, which can lead to the kind of problems you described at Boeing, or pure Re-engineering, which gets the wrong people fired along with the right people. If we don't start leading in these areas, we are doomed to speak Chinese some day.