WOW, quite the "trained technician" at the PowerChip phone line... "Oh yeah, 91 octane is way too high for a Mercedes." TERRIBLE!!! Did he recommend running 87 octane?

__________________
Mike
-W126C 560SEC 040 Black
*6.0L AMG M117 32v Hammer
-W163 ML320 Brilliant Silver
-W124 300E Pearl Black

Yeah, just making sure. I actually have the chip designed for 93 octane, but i still dont think that makes a difference. I am going to use toluene and up my octane instead of the garbage in the bottle (California only has 91), and see if I can notice a performance improvement before I completely condemn Powerchip.

Any time you guys call PowerChip, ask for Joel. He is the guy that knows Mercedes cars. If you can only get 91 octane gas, you should have bought the 91 octane chip.

__________________
2000 E430 Sport (European Delivery)
Brilliant Silver/Ash Leather
Brabus Leather/Wood Sport Steering Wheel
PowerChip
Euro Front Bumper Strips, Debadged
E55 "Carbon Fiber" Door Pillar Trim
E55 Tail lights
E55 AMG/Bilstein Shocks
Eibach Springs, #1 Pads
H & R Sway Bars
Speed Yellow Calipers
18" x 8" SSR Integral Wheels
245/40ZR 18 Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Tires

1986 Porsche 944 Turbo
88K miles

Hello folks,

Just some information for owners of older vehicles (slightly off-topic) if you will indulge me.

My brainbox tuning experience coming into the Mercedes world was purely OBD2, so I did quite a bit of research into options for my 95 E420. With the exception of forced induction vehicles with a computer-controlled turbo, there is precious little besides cleaner combustion with good quality petrol that modified computers do. They have more to do with improved driving feel (snappier downshifts etc.) than actual performance increases.

I purchased the "HP Chip" model W12495E420 from a gentleman off eBay (1toperformance) a few months ago for approximately $90 USD. Originally passed up the auction several times based on the more than suspicious marketing claims:
- 27-35 more HP and 30-40 more Torque Ft/lb
- Great acceleration at low RPM (1000-2000)
- Sharpens the throttle response much better than stock. More punching power in 2000-3000 RPM range and up.
- Removes Top Speed Limiter/Governor
- Removes the Upshift Delay during drive on cold start
- Smooth Idle

Right, and I bet it makes a good cup of Joe in the morning too!

I held an extended discussion with the seller about hype marketing and what the reality was behind the product. Long story short - a Mercedes enthusiast group in Germany which has been modifying W124 eeproms for years was "discovered" by this fellow and struck up a U.S. reseller agreement.

My experience thusfar has been very positive. The cold upshift delay is indeed removed (leaky modulator is another subject entirely!), and the fuel tables appear to have been remapped for higher octane fuel. Significantly flatter torque curve from 2000 - 4000rpm, and the transmission shifts right at 6000rpm. Emissions came back *perfect* last month, indicating the cat converter is still happy and intact. Fuel economy is overall improved, not reduced.

Just a very satisifed consumer here =) Feel free to PM if you would like more information.

-DM

__________________
1995 E420 SE black/black
2004 Volvo V70R AWD

PowerChip doesn't touch the transmission shift points or rev limiter. Fuel mixture and timing only.

__________________
2000 E430 Sport (European Delivery)
Brilliant Silver/Ash Leather
Brabus Leather/Wood Sport Steering Wheel
PowerChip
Euro Front Bumper Strips, Debadged
E55 "Carbon Fiber" Door Pillar Trim
E55 Tail lights
E55 AMG/Bilstein Shocks
Eibach Springs, #1 Pads
H & R Sway Bars
Speed Yellow Calipers
18" x 8" SSR Integral Wheels
245/40ZR 18 Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Tires

1986 Porsche 944 Turbo
88K miles

DM,

What is the name/brand of the chip you have? Because so far, all the M119 chip variants have been pretty weak, at least for the 5.0 chips. I just installed the RENNtech chip in my car and it gained NOTHING at the dragstrip (actually was a little slower, but I'm assuming that was the slightly higher temps).

Other people report the same thing - no discernable difference between stock and RENNtech, or the PAD (Performance Prod), or PowerChip EPROMs (and NO, there is no AMG chip for the 4.2L or 5.0L M119.) I saw no improvement in throttle response, no different shift points, nothin', nada. Sure glad I got the chip used (and cheap) as I'd be REALLY mad if I paid the $650 retail that RENNtech wants for the POS (claims 15hp - HAH!) And, btw, I am running 94 octane pump gas.

Note this is for the early 1992-95 M119 engines, the later ones have a different management system, and the M113 is totally different.

__________________
Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Here's the PowerChip PDF file for the 1992 500E - for some reason, they don't claim to have one for the 1994 E500, even though the chip will work in either car. Note how the document claims no power gain but then the graphs show this fabulous improvement! Yeeeaaah... right:

http://www.powerchipgroup.com/datasheets/2/mer0156.pdf



The also offer NO chip for the 400E/E420, according to their website - what's up with that?
http://www.powerchipgroup.com/

gsxr, it is referred to as the "HiPerformance Chip (HPC)" in Germany. Apparently the name is also used elsewhere in Europe, as a gentleman on this forum in Moscow refers to the product for his modified 1995 S500.

What sold me on the product was an e-mail correspondence with the distributor (hiperformance95@hotmail.com) and excellent reviews on eBay of the product. The German developers are Mercedes enthusiasts themselves, and specialize in tuning the 4.2L and 5.0L M119's found in certain W124, W129, and W140 vehicles.

In my experience, the HP chip is worth every cent paid for it four months ago (approximately $90 USD in my case) and performs well as advertised. Disregard the claimed torque and horsepower claims -- probably measured once, under ideal atmospheric conditions, with modifications to the intake and exhaust. There is much to be said for enthusiasts who focus on optimizing ECU code for one engine platform.

-DM

__________________
1995 E420 SE black/black
2004 Volvo V70R AWD

Just found this on a search engine, from the 500ecstacy forum:

http://www.500ecstasy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=565

Summary of the thread from my reading is that any of these chips are not very useful without a larger airbox and free-flow airfilters. Only reference I have from performance tuning is that achieving the right A/F balance is tricky black magic. Let's just say I went through numerous spark plugs on my last project car because of intake modifications :-)

-DM

__________________
1995 E420 SE black/black
2004 Volvo V70R AWD

Interesting! For the record, I have a Feather Carbon high-volume airbox, ITG high-flow filters, resonator replaced with Y-pipe, and a Remus muffler. And I still saw *nothing* at the dragstrip with the RENNtech chip installed.

Here's the seller's eBay listings. The price has dropped to $69 + $7 shipping:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=1toperformance

Update: There are a few things I do not like about their ad. I am going to contact the seller, but anyway:

1) He says "Each chip is tuned for a specific ECU for each car year and model". That's BS. The LH modules are largely the same and interchangeable for a given engine (119.974, 119.975, etc.) The other M119 chips (like the RENNtech 5.0L chip) will work in any of the half-dozen different LH boxes which MB used from the factory. More info on that is in the attachment below. (sorry for poor quality, the stupid forum size limit forced that.)

2) They show a different part number for each year. Again, that doesn't quite match up, the 1993-94 USA version 124.036 use the SAME LH module. There can't be a difference between his 93 and 94 5.0L chip (and, btw, there is no 1995 E500).

3) DM's previously posted "hype marketing", shown below in italics, was allegedly on a 1994 E500 with K&N filters. And I claim it's absolute BS:
- 27-35 more HP and 30-40 more Torque Ft/lb (ROTFLMAO!!)
- Great acceleration at low RPM (1000-2000) (would be nice)
- Sharpens the throttle response much better than stock. More punching power in 2000-3000 RPM range and up. (would be nice)
- Removes Top Speed Limiter/Governor (coughBScough)
- Removes the Upshift Delay during drive on cold start (ok, cool)
- Smooth Idle (rotfl!)


I'll see what they say via email...

Attached Thumbnails

 

Friday I went to the strip again. Ran 100 octane, non-oxygenated race fuel this time, to see if the RENNtech chip would be happier. I did two runs and was not getting the times I felt it should be getting. So I swapped back the stock (1992) chip into my LH module at the track. The next run, with no "learning curve" whatsoever, was a FULL TWO TENTHS QUICKER, and nearly one full MPH faster. Same day, same weather, same conditions, about one hour apart. The following three runs retained the same large performance advantage.

My theories, at the moment:

1) Race gas doesn't make the RENNtech chip work any better than it did last time (on 94 octane oxygenated pump gas)

2) It's possible I have the late RENNtech chip (not sure, but I think it is), and it simply does NOT work well in the 1992 LH module

3) The RENNtech chip is a POS.

I hope to test theory #2 by running the stock 1994 module at the track, then putting the RENNtech chip into the 1994 module and seeing what it does. (I'll do one run with the 1992 module just to set a basline for that day's weather conditions.) Will probably be next week at the earliest... not sure, there are only about 3 more days I can run the car before the dragstrip closes for the season...! Too many tests I want to run, and just not enough time...

Thats how my chip felt, I never tested it but it seemed slower on early acceleration. I tihnk all chips are POS.

OK, so maybe it's not a POS. I still can't say it gives much power gain - if any at all. I ran at the strip today with the stock 1994 E500 LH module in place (after driving around town with it for 2 weeks), did two runs for a baseline, got very similar numbers. Installed the RENNtech chip at the track and did two more runs. The times with the RT chip installed were marginally better... the improvement was so slight, it could have been a little less headwind during that run, variance in launch RPM, or something. For a last run I popped the 1992 LH module in the car (with the stock 1992 chip). Although the ET remained about the same as the previous best with the 94/RT setup, the trap speed went up a full 0.5mph, even with a little poorer launch (worse 60' time, etc). SO.... my conclusions are:


1) The RENNtech chip in my possession is designed for the LATE model LH boxes (1993/94 USA). Note that RENNtech has two EPROM chip part numbers with an engine number break for early/late chips, which is WRONG, it should be a model year break. **sigh**

2) The late RT chip installed in the 'early' 1992 module causes serious power loss - about 15-20hp by my estimates, or 0.20-0.25 seconds in the quarter mile. Big time drop there. It must be running in some type of open loop or fail-safe mode with the 'wrong' chip installed.

3) The late RT chip installed in a 1993/1994 module provides no earth-shatterting power gains or improvements in 1/4 mile performance, but at least it didn't cause a power *loss*, like it does when installed in the 1992 module! The 1992 module doesn't seem to give a really major improvement over a 93/94 unit. It does seem to pick up the expected 7-10hp though, or about 0.1 second / 1.0mph (at best) in the quarter mile.


Sadly, this was the last test & tune day at my dragstrip until April 2005. And, you generally only get 4-6 runs per day, which makes it hard to do back to back testing. I'd like to run 6-8 total (3-4 each way) to prove if something works or does not, to remove one-time variables like some wind gusts or wheelspin or whatever. Anyhoo, the stock 1992 module STILL seems like the ticket to providing peak power. I would love to play with a chip that is specifically designed for the early boxes. If anyone has an early RT chip they'd sell a copy of, I'll gladly test it... I may pick up that chip off eBay and see what it does, if anything.


Full data in Excel spreadsheet form (look at the 10/9/2004 runs) are at this URL:
http://www.meimann.com/docs/dragstrip/E500_Dragstrip.xls

Sounds good - do you think they would have one for a 1988 300E or is it too early? how much was this application and who is the supplier?
Thx

__________________
88300E