190e m103 supercharger almost complete - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

benzito190 · #16 02-01-2005, 02:52 AM

Thanks for the kind words. Also, superSEC and others with supercharging experience. I put a gauge on it tonight and I pushed a hair under 6psi @ 5500rpm peak behind the bypass and about 4-4.5 in the intake manifold (which confirms that I need to refab smoother intake plumbing, already got the bends to do it). Anybody have thoughts on intercooling? I've done a few turbo projects and I know intercoolers can be quite beneficial over 8 psi in turbo applications, though I've read that even roots blowers tend to put out lower outlet temps at peak efficiency and the temp maps seem to confirm that. Do you think I would gain anything worthwhile out of throwing a good intercooler in there somewhere? If so, thoughts on air-air vs. air-water? I'm kinda skeptical when it comes to whether it's worth all the work to gain 1-5hp with only 5psi on tap. I"m also not getting any signs of pinging or preignition (just checked plugs) even on southern california's crap 91 octane premium while driving pretty hard, and that's with a probably factory position on the EHA screw. So the intake charge isn't exactly super-heated.

Blown_M104 · #17 02-01-2005, 09:57 AM

I agree nice work on your Blower install!

I almost went with an M45 on my project but opt'd out for a centrifugal unit instead. I'm runing 6-7 PSI at redline on a 93 M104 3.2L.

Mine has been installed since Dec. and I've have not had any real problems with it.
I do however need to get on Dyno to check-out the air/ fuel ratio. I'm probably leaving some Hp on the table without having it fully dialed-in.

Have a look...

Tobben, Norway · #18 02-01-2005, 10:33 AM

@Blown M104

Hi, I have just finished my kompressor mod. on my M104.
But here in norway there is a LOT of snow right no, so I have't had the opertunity to test it yet.

I have mounted an Eaton kompressor and the engine is controlled with a Electromotive TEC II system.
And like you I have no intercooler because the boost will be around 0,4 - 0,5 b

Do you know about how hot the inlet air gets? I'm a bit sceptical to this faktor.

(hope you understand what i wrote, sorry about the crapy english)

Tobben, Norway · #19 02-01-2005, 10:42 AM

Some pics:

benzito190 · #20 02-01-2005, 11:55 AM

Wow, nice installs Blown_M104 & Tobben. I wish I had the money to put in a paxton or vortech unit, but $205 on an ebay benz eaton m45 was just about in my budget. http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/superchargers/M45.asp this site has all the specs on the eaton roots blowers (cfm, hp to turn, outlet temp). My m45 at it's current pressure is only increasing the outlet temp to like 120F max on a 70F-80F day, so I'm thinking an intercooler wouldn't improve the setup's power output by anything really noticable. Congrats on those m104's that's some oh-so-good fabrication, I'm still working on cleaning up/painting everything on mine to make it look nice now that it's functional. If only I had an additional cam and some more displacement on this m103 I would be looking at much higher output, oh well

Blown_M104 · #21 02-01-2005, 02:00 PM

Tobben

Love your install on the M104!
I wish we would have crossed pathes a few months back.

To answer your question I'm not sure about the inlet air temp.
Believe it or not we've had a rather cold winter here in Atlanta with a hugh ice storm just this last weekend. My project orginally included an air-to-air intercooler in the fender just in front of the pass side tire. The piping to and from the intercooler was a mess and I was lossing boost with all the turns so I took it off after a couple weeks. The performance inproved and I have had no hot inlet issues (yet). Once summer arrives I'll re-look at the intercooler idea and probably consider a small air-water unit.

Now a couple questions for you:
On the intake runners you have a boost gauge installed; what device was in that location before?
Have you made any changes to the ECU/ Fuel delivery system to handle the increase in air flow? If so what changes?

Thanks!

benzito190 · #22 02-01-2005, 05:54 PM

on the intake manifold I teed the vac/boost gauge off of the same line that runs to the EZL ignition module (which references from the plenum rather from an individual runner). Since it is directly on the plenum and the EZL is completely sealed, I figure it should be a pretty accurate manifold vac/pressure reference point (rather than the transmission vac line which comes off the #6 manifold runner). Nothing whatsoever done to the fuel system really, I took the vaccum line from the fuel pressure reg and ran it into the tube that my bypass is mounted on so that it will exert a little bit of pressure on the regulator diaphragm (since the jetronic unit adjusts it's reference pressure against the resistance of the MAF this really doesn't do anything, but I like the idea of keeping fuel pressure in check with the boost pressure). Other than the supercharger and tubing, the engine is basically bone stock in every sense.

Tobben, Norway · #23 02-02-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blown_M104

Tobben

Love your install on the M104!
I wish we would have crossed pathes a few months back.

To answer your question I'm not sure about the inlet air temp.
Believe it or not we've had a rather cold winter here in Atlanta with a hugh ice storm just this last weekend. My project orginally included an air-to-air intercooler in the fender just in front of the pass side tire. The piping to and from the intercooler was a mess and I was lossing boost with all the turns so I took it off after a couple weeks. The performance inproved and I have had no hot inlet issues (yet). Once summer arrives I'll re-look at the intercooler idea and probably consider a small air-water unit.

Now a couple questions for you:
On the intake runners you have a boost gauge installed; what device was in that location before?
Have you made any changes to the ECU/ Fuel delivery system to handle the increase in air flow? If so what changes?

Thanks!

Hi!!

Finaly someone that has done "the samething" to he's engine

Nice to share experience with someone.

On the intake runners/plenum there were a device that separates the plenum. It crates a longer runner if you know what I meen. Long runners creates more tourq at low engine revs. And this "device" keep them separated intill the engine comes over 3600rpm's, then it opens the plenum so the runners become just as long as you can see on the picture (from the boost gauge and in to the enginehead.)
This happens at the same time as the intake cam turns 8 degrees.

I have mounted a computer controlled ignition og fuel system, it's name is electromotive TEC II. View

HTML Code:

www.getfuelinjected.com

for details.

Becouse I haven't had the opertunity to test my car, I still have the originale fuelpump. But I'm unsoure this pump will give the flow required...
Injectors are replaced with Bosch's 440cc. And the enginehead are modified so the compression ratio are now 9,54:1 insted of 10,5:1 (org.)

Blown_M104 · #24 02-02-2005, 12:57 PM

Tobben:

Thanks for the responces to my questions, that was very helpful.

I have the stock fuel pump, stock injectors, Stock ECU and stock compression ratio on my setup. I'll look at the aftermarket EFI system thanks for the link!

nukblazi · #25 02-02-2005, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benzito190

Wow, nice installs Blown_M104 & Tobben. I wish I had the money to put in a paxton or vortech unit, but $205 on an ebay benz eaton m45 was just about in my budget. http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/superchargers/M45.asp this site has all the specs on the eaton roots blowers (cfm, hp to turn, outlet temp). My m45 at it's current pressure is only increasing the outlet temp to like 120F max on a 70F-80F day, so I'm thinking an intercooler wouldn't improve the setup's power output by anything really noticable. Congrats on those m104's that's some oh-so-good fabrication, I'm still working on cleaning up/painting everything on mine to make it look nice now that it's functional. If only I had an additional cam and some more displacement on this m103 I would be looking at much higher output, oh well

I know this is pricey, maybe there is an OEM pulley you could find to swap on, but, you can contact Unorthodox Racing in NY and they will build you an alloy pulley to your specs.

They quoted me $1k to build and an OEM alloy pulley since it'd be a one off. I am prepping my car for SCCA Street Prepared class, and the Kleemann over-boost pulley I have on is illegal, but the OEM alloy would recoup some lost ponies.

To all of you, very, very nice work.

benzito190 · #26 02-04-2005, 12:49 PM

I've been getting a bunch of private feeback on this system, I'm wondering if it would be worth rigging up a jig to copy my bracketry if people are willing enough to supply their own super chargers on the 2.6 motors. Most people that do custom fabrication charge completely unreasonable amounts of money to put an hour into welding a simple bracket or the like. Ex. a custom pulley probably takes somebody like 30min-1hr to make on a good metal lathe = $1000!!! not cool. So I'd be keeping pricing at least reasonable.

pentoman · #27 02-04-2005, 02:14 PM

Presumably this would work very similarly on the M102 (2.0 and 2.3) engines too as they are just an M103 with 2 cylinders removed?

Maybe even the 16v....... that would probably make it pretty popular.

How strong are the internals of the 102 and 103 and do you think your car will stand ~210bhp in everyday use?

Russ

benzito190 · #28 02-04-2005, 02:51 PM

Yeah if, somebody is willing the get their m102 powered benz to me here in southern california, that would be about as easy. And benz uses all forged bottom ends... it's why you see m102/3's going for 285K miles and still running strong. I dropped my pan when I bought the car, everything has forging marks (flatter seems rather than sharp casting seems) and it's a VERY robust bottom end, strong looking main caps. I'd easily trust it past 300hp, at which point the transmission would probably be the weak point. And the m102 bottom end could probably take at least 280 with complete reliability as far as I can tell if it's built anything like it's 6 banger offshoot. the front end is somewhat similar on these motors, but I wouldn't expect the same bracket to work, I'd probably have to move the mounting points around a little.