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  #46  
Old 02-18-2006, 03:07 AM
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I think Franz's Tremec is a T-6 model, but yes, basically the same thing.

It's not difficult to install pedals and clutch in a 6.3 -- you have the parts from the 3.5 and 2.8 cars (Euro) and they are available from MB.

Wasn't the guy in the US Derek Jettmar, the guy who put the 6.3 in the R113 280SL chassis? Dan Smith bought one of his adapters and it didn't work -- I believe it was just "wrong". He was out some bucks with that one.

I think Franz' is correctly engineered. The 6.3 and 6.9 have different bolt hole patterns for the transmission flange.

Cheers,
Gerry

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  #47  
Old 02-18-2006, 01:34 PM
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Yeah, it was Derek. There was a big thread going for a while because you had him and Franz doing the same thing. I had not heard of anybody using either kit, but I have seen pics on franzs web site of a RHD car with manual tranny (6.3). I think the 6.9 would be great with a 4 speed automatic, Franz has a kit for that, I think that is the one that uses a Chevy box. Shoot, if your 6.9 tranny was in good shape, you could probably do the conversion, sell the 6.9 box and just about pay for the whole thing!
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  #48  
Old 02-22-2006, 09:05 PM
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hey check this out!!

Mercedes-Benz M104 engine
The Mercedes-Benz M104 was a straight-6 automobile engine produced from 1990 through 1997. It was a double overhead cam design with 4 valves per cylinder. It replaced the M103 and was replaced by the M112 V6 starting in 1997. The M104 continued in production under license by SsangYong Motor Company of Korea.

If our friend above is right that 90-92 was five speed then its possible that they can be used on any of these m104's. I mean how much would mb change the inner workings? they look the same their likely the same internally - drive train etc.
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  #49  
Old 04-04-2006, 07:53 PM
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Attn: Holeshot

On the 201 chassis the clutch master is inside the cab mounted just below the pedal at an angle so NO room is necessary in the engine compartment....and it stays cooler. The pedal pressure was too high with my HD race clutch that I reduced the master cylinder from 19mm. to 5/8" and that reduced the pedal pressure from 88lbs to 55 lbs. Now feels great!
On my Ford powered 190 I use a hydraulic throwout bearing on my Tremec input shaft collar to activate the clutch so no room is needed there either!
One day I'll also convert my 400E to a six speed when I find the time, too much to do and so little time to do it all!

TobiasMB
190/5.8
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  #50  
Old 04-04-2006, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATATEXAN
I have a friend who had such a car "engineered" by RennTech. 1992 500E that is now a 6 liter with the six-speed sourced from a BMW 850Ci. I believe that is a Getrag unit.
I don't care where the 6-speed came from (as long as it's not a Chevy) I'm just really REALLY interested now that my house just sold and I have a little 'extra' cash floating around.

Discussing this with another gearhead I was wondering.. where to we get a flywheel for the 500? Seems to me that Advance Adaptors would come up with just about anything needed to physically attach a trans to the 500, it's all the other stuff (pedal box, somewhat of an issue, I'd rather have that all MBZ) like the flywheel. Once that is determined then the rest could sourced based on that selection (pressure plate, friction, etc. etc. etc.).

Anyone have anything new to report?
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  #51  
Old 04-04-2006, 09:14 PM
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My plan is a one shot deal, mine!

My plan is to use a company in Alabama called SPEC which is what clutch etc is in my 190. Was told by my connection there they can make me a flywheel to use and supply the clutch, again. The hardest part of all is the bellhousing which really is no problem for a one-off! Find an old/crashed/burned automatic tranny and remove all the guts from it. Then measure and cut off the section around the front pump and weld on an aluminum 3/4-1" plate that has been machined to fit a Tremec tranny. This give you a bellhousing and a place to remount your starter. Don't need a throwout fork if using a hydraulic bearing on the input shaft. Easy, just need the time to do it....
TobiasMB
190/5.8
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  #52  
Old 08-17-2006, 09:25 AM
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I have a 1990 500SL. Being sick of the insolent nature of the MB slushbox, I have taken measurements from my Gen3 6-speed GM car and my Benz in order to fit a T56 box into the Benz. One can only imagine just how much better this car would be.
Whilst the simplest thing to do would be to replace the whole engine & transmission, it has to be said that there is a lot of horsepower hiding in that Benz engine. In keeping the original engine, I believe the car will perhaps even increase in value with a cleanly converted 6-speed.
It would appear the simplest route would be to cut the front off an OEM slushbox and weld it to an adaptor plate on the T56. A custom flywheel is likely, as is use of a GM hydraulic throwout bearing carrier. The clutch cover could quite easily be a GM unit, however a dampened friction disc would need to be sourced (the GM disc is not dampened and uses a dual mass flywheel - yuck!).
Although the tunnel dimensions appear to be OK, the shifter hole in the tunnel is about 80mm rearward of the T56 shifter if measuring from the block face with the T56 bellhousing in an Aussie-made GM car (Commodore, GTO, etc). This is one problem.
The differential ratio is approximately 2.65:1. This is also a problem. In my 6-speed V8 GM car the ratios are approximately 3.5:1. There are many who put 3.9:1 ratios in their GM cars, or even 4.11:1 diff gears, and this really wakes them up. However, with the 2.65:1 Benz gears, 1st gear will be very tall and 6th gear will be useless as it means engine revs will be burbling along at approximately 1200RPM at 100km/h (60mph). Are other ratios available for the MB diff?
Has anybody that was thinking about building a kit in previous responses progressed?
If anybody has any thoughts on the diff ratios, the shifter, or the conversion in general, please bring it on.
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  #53  
Old 08-17-2006, 05:25 PM
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Another tranny...

Richmond also makes a 5 speed tranny called a 4+1 and instead of fifth gear being an overdrive ratio, it is 1:1. All the other gears are lower so that you really don't need to change the diff ratio. My 400E has a 2.24 gear but I already have a 2.65 to put in it JIC I'd like to.
I've just started on a new road race track car and still have a kit car to put together before I tear into my everyday driver! And the old track car, the Ford powered 190 is up for sale. The Tremec T5-WC tranny has just been replaced with a stronger 3550 tranny (from a 427" small block Panoz track car). So now the 190 has Panoz front calipers and tranny in it!

TobiasMB
190/5.8
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  #54  
Old 08-17-2006, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias MB View Post
Richmond also makes a 5 speed tranny called a 4+1 and instead of fifth gear being an overdrive ratio, it is 1:1. All the other gears are lower so that you really don't need to change the diff ratio. My 400E has a 2.24 gear but I already have a 2.65 to put in it JIC I'd like to.
I've just started on a new road race track car and still have a kit car to put together before I tear into my everyday driver! And the old track car, the Ford powered 190 is up for sale. The Tremec T5-WC tranny has just been replaced with a stronger 3550 tranny (from a 427" small block Panoz track car). So now the 190 has Panoz front calipers and tranny in it!

TobiasMB
190/5.8
Toby, how much do you want for the 190 now ?

:-) neil
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  #55  
Old 08-18-2006, 01:52 AM
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And the asking price is....

$14,000 with all the spares I have for it. Included are special tools, an extra set of wheels (Corvette) and depending when its sold/delivered, new Toyo
RA1 tires. Also have an assortment of cams and parts that I can't even remember without being in the shop to look at!
The motor was freshened up in the spring with new rings, bearings and a new SPEC stage three clutch disc when the 3550 tranny was installed. The car also has a new set of Carbotech brake pads that are the latest compound
developed.

Spread the word....
Toby
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  #56  
Old 08-22-2006, 11:32 PM
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The 300SL had a 3.69, but I dont know how powerful it would go, slk too but that cant be any good. I seem to recall a 3.5X in probably an ML AMG? Not real sure, but keep at it, theres a lot of gear sets available for that trans, Crank. Good room for improvement, I know after having the Audi with like direct or .98 6th sure is fun. I'm real interested in seeing what you come up with, and might actually be able to tolerate driving another Benz.
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  #57  
Old 08-23-2006, 03:46 AM
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Others shared the 3.69

The first of the worst car recently built by MB, the 140 class, had it in their
five speed AT, 300SE. This was the only way to get that big heavy sedan to move with the 6 cyl. motor in it. It worked and had better acceleration than the 126 cars before it.

Tobias MB
190/5.8
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  #58  
Old 08-24-2006, 09:28 PM
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so whats the progress of the tranny? Im Kinda lazy to read through all of the posts.


Albert S.
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  #59  
Old 09-08-2006, 06:02 AM
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Tremec Conversion

6-Speed Conversion:
I'm still sourcing some parts to help design the conversion, such as a worthless Benz auto box that's full of shrapnel so I can cut the front off it.
I am also still investigating the grafting of a GM diff into the car to resolve the final drive ratios. It looks possible, and means that I could use a shortened GM tailshaft too, but I still have more measurements to take. This would be good in that all the serviceable parts would be cheaper than Benz parts, and various useful diff ratios are already available for GM's.
I'm talking about converting an 1990 R129 500SL, but there are many of you with 500E cars. I would be interested if somebody could post the differences between the two cars as they relate to this type of conversion. Info such as the dimension from the engine block face to the front of the shifter hole in the tunnel would be useful, etc.
The idea is that if I deem it all worthwhile, I would eventually CAD everything then provide a kit to the general market (left & right hand drive). Getting my own car sorted will take some time and would take preference over development of the kit, but at least I could provide some items or information along the way. This could take a while to come to fruition, so be patient!
There are probably a few of you who are keen for something like this. It would be interesting to know how many of you are out there, but be realistic: This isn't likely to be cheap but then it won't be unreasonable either.
Keep the information flowing!

Crank

PS: RIP Steve Irwin & Peter Brock. Two Aussie Legends that will be missed!
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  #60  
Old 09-08-2006, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crank View Post
6-Speed Conversion:...
There are probably a few of you who are keen for something like this. It would be interesting to know how many of you are out there, but be realistic:
Having just added another performance 5-speed to the fold.. I'm even more motivated to get something like this done. I wish there was a way to stock with all Benz parts though, like a trans from a 320SL (there were a few manuals out there.. or maybe I'm mistaken).

I'm listening, and all ears. Of course I cannot commit to something untill all the facts are in but money and deisre are both here to made this change to my W124.

- David

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