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  #76  
Old 11-03-2006, 11:46 AM
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Bolt patterns

Not read all this very, very carefully, but:

The bolt pattern of a m119 is a lot different than the bolt pattern of a w201 16v Getrag box.

The w201 16v Getrag fits an OM603, thats for sure, have that in my garage now.

I also have a m119 engine lying around, and the bolt pattern of that is much wider, and completely different than from a OM603 or 2.3-16 engine, that I can assure everybody.

(and probably the bolt pattern of a m119 is also very different from a m103, but I dont have a m103 lying around.)

And I havent done anything more to my m119-BMW M5 Getrag conversion, but its doable as far as the bolt pattern.
Fitting the Getrag in the trans tunnel: dont know, yet.....

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  #77  
Old 11-03-2006, 12:01 PM
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And maybe you could fit a 2.3-16 Getrag to a V8, but the problem is this: the bellhousing of the Getrag is to small for the V8 startergear/flexplate, so if you wanted to do this, you:
-need a very thick (2 inch or more)adapter plate (will engine and box still fit in the engine bay??)
-have a lot more work machining the adapter plate
-still end up with only 5 gears
-have a strong box, but strong enough for the V8 torque?
-also need to make a custom flywheel.

Want to go manual on your V8? Go with the tremec, or with a m5/540/740 E39 getrag.

The BMW Getrag is 'easy' to fit to the m119, that I am sure of, although I am not 100 percent finished yet. Got to less time.

Tremec I dont know, but since it already was on a USA V8, with a big bellhouse... Or use it with a custom MB bellhouse, like Tobias suggested.

For europeans like me I am sure the BMW-Getrag-6 is the best option (1000 euro you have one, sometimes less).
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  #78  
Old 11-04-2006, 08:19 AM
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Jaguar SVO did this swap on the 2001 XKR-R concept

I forgot which vendor supplies Jaguar with automatics for stock XKR's but this is the info from Jaguar SVO in 2001...

"Behind the engine, SVO replaced the stock five-speed automatic transmission with a customized Tremec T-56 six-speed manual unit, similar to that found in the Dodge Viper and Chevrolet Corvette. The T56 is a stout unit, and paired with an AP Racing twin-plate clutch, is a suitable partner for the XKR-R's power and torque."
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  #79  
Old 12-10-2006, 08:30 AM
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And this is that other thread....


And I've got news: One week ago I finished my adapter plate from 20 mm aluminium.
Put it on the M119, and then fitted the BMW getrag.
Looked NICE!

But then something became clear to me:
-the gearbox center was not exactly in the center of the crank
-60 percent of the mounting holes didnt mount up....

Conclusion: no matter how precise you MEASURE the trans and engine, you still end up with differences of sometimes 1 cm (about half an inch)!!!

So: went out, and found another piece of 20mm aluminium. This time a went to a MB parts supplier, for a m119 auto trans. He didnt have one, only one from a m117.
Bolt pattern not the same as a m119 (now you know!), but 7 of 8 were! Also one fitting bush (how do yo call them?) was in another place.

But for me to difficult to find a m119 auto trans (I sold mine......grrrrr), so I had to do with this.

Long story short: last 2 days I spent jiggsawing, boring, turning etc, and my new plate fits to the engine, and everything is in place now!

Today I am gonna fitt a getrag M5 bellhousing, with an adapter, so that it is in the exact center of the cranks center.

When I am done, ill take pictures.
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  #80  
Old 12-10-2006, 09:15 AM
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Eager to see those
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  #81  
Old 12-10-2006, 09:43 AM
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Using a salvage tranny case for the mock up will give you all the correct dimensions needed for an adapter. Just don't cut the case behind the engine bolt pattern but cut it further back to save the crankshaft center dimensions like at the front pump or seal. A good machine shop with 'locating' equipment can transfer the dimensions to a CNC program and cut everything with no manual intervention on a CNC milling machine. Then by doing the same thing with an old Chevy powerglide and overlaying those dimensions (using the crank centers) you have an adapter! Then all is needed is the proper Chevy bellhousing for the transmission used, such as a T56. Maybe possible a bellhousing manufacterer such as Lakewood could download the Chevy dimensions.
I'd be doing it but I have too many irons in the fire at the moment and not enough time. One day I'd love to tackle the conversion. I do have a Richmond 6 speed for sale with ratios of 3.01, 1.88, 1.46, 1.19, 1.0 and .62 that is new in the box with shifter. I'll take $2700 for it, a savings of about $500.

Tobias MB
190/5.8 (for sale)
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  #82  
Old 12-11-2006, 08:32 PM
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pictures

Ok. Adapter plate is all done, and tranny is on the engine. Everything ok.
Only one problem: how the hell will i get this combination in a w201.....
First now, I have to finish my w201 2.3-16 with om603, and then, a couple of months from now probably (have another project which needs to be finished, renault clio track car) i have to remove the 2.0 diesel from my other w201, which is one of my daily drivers, and see if the package fits, and if so, what needs to be done (steering box: oh ohhh)

If it doesnt fit, I will try a w123 chassis.

I have pictures, but they are still on the harddisk of the camera. Tomorrow I can have them on my computer, but I dont have webspace or anything like that, so who can I send them?
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  #83  
Old 12-11-2006, 09:02 PM
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I've got room if you need.. My site is undergoing a total re-model but I can still host.

Let me know.

Jonathan
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Jonathan Hodgman
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Enthusiast Service, Restoration & Tuning.
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Located in the Atlanta area
Specializing in all pre and post merger AMG's including Hammers and DOHC M117 engines.
Mercedes Repair Atlanta
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  #84  
Old 12-11-2006, 10:07 PM
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Reinier,
If you have steering box interference, then do what I did to install my 302 motor, rack and pinion. Mine is from a VW Golf/Jetta from the early 90s and works just fine with the MB p/s pump which on my car has a removeable cartridge with shims inside to 'adjust' your steering pressure. When first running I could steer with my pinkie so removed shims to lower the pressure
to have more feedback on the wheel. A call to the ZF rebuild center here in the USA told me what to do and mailed me a pouch of mixed thickness shims
to use.

Tobias MB
190/5.8
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  #85  
Old 12-12-2006, 07:40 AM
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@ Jonathan: I sent you the pics on the blueridge-adress, so if you can post them here: thanks!

@Tobias: Dont know about the interference yet. On the other hand: an E500 also has a normal MB steering box (with balls in them, dont know the english word), and to me it seems that a w124 engine bay isnt much bigger as a w201 engine bay. And ok, maybe the engine bay of a e500 is bigger than a normal w124 (porsche) but it cannot be A LOT bigger imo. (only one time i looked under the hood of a E500, and it is full...)

I hope that I dont have to covert to R&P. HOPE....

Do you have any pictures of the underside and steering of your car Tobias?
is the rack mounted on the front or on the back?

For sure it is much easier for me here in Europe to get my hands on a VW steering rack, rather than a chevy or fordusa rack.

Thanks for the pressure-story! What kind of pump are you using? From which type of MB?
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  #86  
Old 12-12-2006, 08:41 AM
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Here we go:

Adapter plate 01

Adapter plate 02

Adapter plate 02

Trans and Engine 01

Trans and Engine 02


Trans and Engine 03

Enjoy

Jonathan
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Blue Ridge Mercedes
Jonathan Hodgman
http://www.blueridgemb.com/
Enthusiast Service, Restoration & Tuning.
Follow Us on Facebook!
Located in the Atlanta area
Specializing in all pre and post merger AMG's including Hammers and DOHC M117 engines.
Mercedes Repair Atlanta
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  #87  
Old 12-12-2006, 09:56 AM
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I'm also curious what are the ratio's in this box??

Jonathan
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Blue Ridge Mercedes
Jonathan Hodgman
http://www.blueridgemb.com/
Enthusiast Service, Restoration & Tuning.
Follow Us on Facebook!
Located in the Atlanta area
Specializing in all pre and post merger AMG's including Hammers and DOHC M117 engines.
Mercedes Repair Atlanta
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  #88  
Old 12-12-2006, 12:28 PM
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Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
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Steering issues

On this side of the creek we call it recirculating ball steering.
I have the part number for the rack and the OE tie rod ends fit the 201 steering arms. If you go with 124 knuckles (suggested for the weight) as I did then you need the tie rod ends from a VW Quantum as the arms are about 30% larger, tie rod holes also.
To get quicker steering and the travel needed, I shortened the arms, reheat treated them by about 1.5 inches. The rack is called a rear steer or behind the front axle line.
I mounted the rack to a removeable plate that bolts to the front crossmember
and the extensions on the frame that the lower control arms connect to. This makes doing any maintenance or access easier if needed.
The P/S pump used was from the original setup in my car, a 1984 2.2 diesel.
Behind the front pulley and to the right of the shaft is a large hex about 24-26mm. This is the pressure relief valve cartridge that can be adjusted. To access it the pulley needs to be removed and the oil drained form the reservoir.
I have some pictures but would have to drag them out...let me know if you get to that point if needed.

Good luck, looks good so far...
Tobias MB
190/5.8 (460hp/410 torque)
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  #89  
Old 12-12-2006, 12:51 PM
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Ratios: dont know. This is a box from a 740i, but i have also parts from a m3 3.2 and M5 lying around, so if i want to change them in the future....

what do you mean by w124 'knuckles' Tobias?
Do you mean the steel bars that are bolted to the uhhh 'wheel thing' (i mean the part where the shock absorber, wheel bearing, brake caliper etc on is mounted)

I thought that if you go R&P you have to make these steel bars all by yourself.

And what is a VW Quantum? (4 door?, suv? bigger than a Jetta? Passat maybe? Passat is about the same size as a MB C class)
We dont have that one in Europe, maybe by a different name.

If you ever run into the pictures: reiniervanspreuwel@hotmail.com !
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  #90  
Old 01-03-2007, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reinier View Post
And what is a VW Quantum? (4 door?, suv? bigger than a Jetta? Passat maybe? Passat is about the same size as a MB C class)
We dont have that one in Europe, maybe by a different name.

If you ever run into the pictures: reiniervanspreuwel@hotmail.com !
The VW Quantum is an 80s VW Passat (the one that also came as the syncro). The VW Passat is actually about 7 (B5) to 10 (B6) inches longer than a C-Class but pricing is closer to the C-Class for sure.

Best regards

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