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  #1  
Old 01-22-2005, 08:57 PM
Alain V.'s Avatar
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Location: KS.
Posts: 477
Any interest in a manual 6speed for your 400/500e?

OK, here's the deal......
I have access to a full CAD operated machine shop/manufacturing facility, with the folks I am working with to manufacture GT40 and cobra replicas.

We just finished making our own bellhousing to mate a 4.6 modular ford engine to a ZF (pantera) gearbox for our GT40 replica,,,,,,,and that sort of got me thinking.......

hmmmmm, why not make a custom bellhousing to fit a 119 series MBZ v8 and mate it to a Tremec T56 six speed gearbox, just like the Viper and Aston Martin Vanquish???

hmmmm, I just happen to have a 119 (500sl) engine sitting on the stand here, and my AMG hammer in the back corner of the shop,,,that I can use as the "test mule".

hmmmmm, the only other thing needed to "make" would be a flywheel, as you can get a clutch pedal & master cyl from MBZ for a 124 chassis 300e manual.

So, here's my thought.

"what if", I developed a "kit" that would make it possible to bolt a T56 6speed into your 124 chassis 400e or 500e?

I could offer it two ways:

Kit A: would be a basic set up of just the custom fabbed parts, such as the bellhousing, flywheel, hydraulic throwout bearing, rear trans mount and driveshaft yoke& driveshaftfront half.

gearbox, clutch assembly, pedal, slave cyl,shifter and other "off the shelf" pieces to finish the job.


orrrr my Kit B: would include everything you need to do it.

Of course I would provide detailed instructions with digital pics in the kits.

I'd also have to make a speedo drive work for both mechanical and elec speedos.

The catch is that although alot of folks like to "talk" about MBZ performance, my experience is that there aren't many who are actually willing to pay for it.


Making these parts will take considerable time and money on my part, so I'm only going to consider it if there is actually a "market" for such parts.

At this point, I can only guess, but my target price for the fabbed parts would try to stay wthin $1500 to 2k for them.

You can buy the gearbox new for around $3k, and figure 1k more for clutch assembly,pedal,and misc stuff.
I'd try to keep the entire swap cost around $5k.

So whadoo ya think?
I'd want to make at least ten of them, to make it worthwhile.

This project would actually tempt me to keep my hammer, and make some "other" cool parts for the 119 engine while I'm at it.

here's some of the "stuff" I've been working on,
http://members19.clubphoto.com/alain658327/guest-1.phtml

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Last edited by Alain V.; 01-22-2005 at 09:04 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-23-2005, 12:33 AM
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If the tranny adaptor fit the 119, it would also fit the 117 since the bolt pattern is the same. I'm sure you could get some 126 V8 guys interested too.
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  #3  
Old 01-23-2005, 09:12 AM
C32AMG's Avatar
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Which clutch pattern would the flywheel have, Chevy, ford……………?
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  #4  
Old 01-23-2005, 03:57 PM
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I think thats a brilliant idea..........would be nice to have something to mate a OM617 engine to.........with an overdrive. Definately NOT a hotrod...........but still a worthy project.
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Last edited by boneheaddoctor; 01-24-2005 at 09:46 AM.
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  #5  
Old 01-24-2005, 01:34 PM
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Sounds like a interesting idea but would you have sufficent space in a 500E footwell for a clutch pedal and the emergency brake? I dont know how much wider the v8 tunnel is compared to normal 124s
Regards Linds
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  #6  
Old 01-24-2005, 02:04 PM
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Alain,
I'd be very interested in a complete 6-speed "kit" in the $5k to $6k range. How does the Tremec compare to the Getrag unit in terms of size? I know the Getrag requires reshaping of the tunnel to fit.

I know it's early in the process, but what timeframe are you thinking? Given the interest, is this something that can be complete within 6 months? 1 year? Longer?

I'd like to be kept in the loop on your progress! Thanks.

Regards,
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  #7  
Old 01-24-2005, 02:25 PM
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i too am curious/interested and would like to be kept in the loop. i second Glen in knowing the time frame for these kits. so i can prepare/save up on the benjamins.

Last edited by rammbs; 01-25-2005 at 12:40 AM.
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  #8  
Old 01-25-2005, 12:35 AM
Amore California
 
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Alain ... add me to the 'high interest' category. Glen and I have be doing a lot of 'Why can't this be done? Why can't we do this - hell, if RennTech did it, we know it CAN be done!' This project sounds perfect - especially from an economic perspective.

I know that the 300E will provide the bolt-on linkage/pedal bits, but tell us more about the flywheel etc. I am assuming the pressure plate, TOB, and clutch will be after market - but will the 300E flywheel handle the torque, especially if someone goes 6.0L or NOS, or both?
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  #9  
Old 01-25-2005, 01:31 AM
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in like Flynn

You KNOW I'm in!!!

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  #10  
Old 01-25-2005, 02:09 AM
gerryvz's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alain V.
The catch is that although alot of folks like to "talk" about MBZ performance, my experience is that there aren't many who are actually willing to pay for it.


Making these parts will take considerable time and money on my part, so I'm only going to consider it if there is actually a "market" for such parts.

At this point, I can only guess, but my target price for the fabbed parts would try to stay wthin $1500 to 2k for them.

You can buy the gearbox new for around $3k, and figure 1k more for clutch assembly,pedal,and misc stuff.
I'd try to keep the entire swap cost around $5k.
This sounds like a great idea. A company down in Australia called Big Toys (www.big-toys.net) custom-manufactured an adapter to fit the Tremec manual transmission to the 300SEL 6.3. I would be interested in your project as well.

Couple of things though. As you correctly observed, and as I have personally experienced with custom-fabricating and selling several NLA (no longer available from the factory) parts for other vintage MBs, a lot of people "talk" but suddenly disappear when it comes time to "ante up". This is not to deride anyone here on this thread, but I'm just stating a fact of life.

If you look at how many people have actually purchased the $2K BergWerks N2O system for the 500E, I can count the people that I know of on little more than 1 hand. My system was $2K for the base system, another grand for the other bits to really make it workable (bottle heater, remote bottle valve, bottle blanket, other accessories), but my shop did a killer install job which was another $2,500ish (which included $750 for custom-fabricating a bottle mount on the driver's side of the trunk).

Second, I think your $5K estimate is low. With all the custom work, acquisition costs and various parts that a conversion would entail, not to mention labor (very few 500E owners would be able to do the work themselves), I think this is a solid $10K upgrade, parts and labor.

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade here, but I think you should price this out VERY realistically (with some extra slop built in, in case you hit the inevitable difficulties whatever they may be) and inform people up front. AND, at least get a significant deposit of $2-3K to separate the men from the boys.

Interested to hear more as your project progresses. Please keep us informed over at www.500ecstasy.com It's been the subject of some discussion over there and all are eager to learn more. Good luck!!

Cheers,
Gerry
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  #11  
Old 01-25-2005, 04:17 PM
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Interested as well. Yes, a deposit should be necessary as well as a time frame . . .

:-) neil
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  #12  
Old 01-25-2005, 10:20 PM
Alain V.'s Avatar
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Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: KS.
Posts: 477
Well guys, in order to keep costs down,,,,,this is something I would only work on during "idle" time,,,,,,
which means it would probably be a year before I have them ready.

I still need to do some comparisons between the Tremec and the factory MBZ trans, as far as size goes. I'll posts my findings when I have them.

The flywheel would be a custom made unit as would be the bellhousing and trans mount. These are all easy enough to manufacture once I have all the hard points/DATA set in CAD.



Clutch assembly and hydraulic throwout bearing would be off the shelf items, (probably GM/chevy spline, since they are so easy to obtain).


Interior pieces, such as clutch/brake pedal would be MBZ part numbers for an early 124 chassis 300e manual car.

True, I may have been a little optomistic with my pricing.
I need to start gathering part numbers and data in order to build a pricelist.

I must say I am surprised to see a number of you show interest.

I'll keep everyone posted of my findings/progress.
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  #13  
Old 02-01-2005, 01:43 AM
Mattman
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As supersec mentioned if the kit would also work on the W126 then you would increase your market size considerably.

I spoke to the guys at big boys toys listed above about a year ago and they quoted around 10k US to do a conversion on my W126 and they have done a number of 6.3's already.

Hope this gets off the ground.

Matt.
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  #14  
Old 02-02-2005, 12:45 AM
roas
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Hi Alain,

I am interested as well. A 6 speed manual would be very cool indeed.


Ross
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  #15  
Old 02-02-2005, 12:59 AM
roas
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While we are at the planning stages, would a Zeroshift, sequiential speed shifting system work?

Zeroshift turns a regular Tremec T56 6 speed into a millisecond sequiential shifting transmission.

http://www.zeroshift.com/#

Might simplify the install by removing the need for the pedals but GREATLY increase the price of admission.

Just a thought.

Ross

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