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  #1  
Old 12-27-2000, 10:42 AM
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yal yal is offline
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For what its worth check out this MSN website which has a reliability rating.

http://carpoint.msn.com/jump/news/JGnews_4019432_6.asp

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  #2  
Old 12-27-2000, 11:19 AM
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we still came in seventh place as a overall carmaker ahead of bmw, cadillac, and lincoln.
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  #3  
Old 12-27-2000, 11:45 AM
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I swear I was just going to show you guy's that. However Yal beat me to it. MSN is what comes up right after I sign on so I see that Home page. Now I'm worried again. Is this biased or is Mercedes really cutting corners so badly.
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  #4  
Old 12-27-2000, 07:39 PM
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From what I've read on this board, it seems like most of peoples complaints/problems with the newer Mercedes cars were more of a fit and finish issue than mechanics. Squaky Seats, Faulty electrical this or that.

I havent heard of any new cars just up and breaking with major mechanical breakdowns.

Electrical stuff can be very realiable and also very unrealiable. A Part that may not have been produced in a properly put together line can cause malfunctions.

If they base it on only the last 5 years, well mercedes had just revamped its whole model lineup, new designs and everything. that first 1-2 years could very well have been mostly working out the kinks as with any new design. What they need to do is compare how many mercedes are still on the road since lexus came out. Lets say 13 years. Now how many 13 year old lexus are on the roads still and what was their cost to maintain vs the mercedes and how each drive.

Most of these reports are based on a very small fraction of information, and not thorough enough to really produce acurate results in my opinion. If I were to put together a reliability report it would be based on cost of ownership, length of time on the road, mileage, how the car drives vs the mileage, etc etc etc. I would not just base it on a generealized category.

I Don't see This as being a reliabilty issue if they base it on how many problems reported per hundred vehicles. without reporting on what the actual problems were and the percentage of those cars that had the problems, compared to build dates etc.

If all the cars with similar problems came from a similar build date, then you could assume that it had something to do with a part that was faulty or from an improper production line, or there were some issues with that run of cars.

That doesn't mean that all of them are bad.

Just like one person can get one and have problems and others can have none.

Thats my 2 cents.

Alon
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  #5  
Old 12-27-2000, 09:09 PM
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The limitation of a "reported Problems" study are that there are different expectations for different cars. Someone who buys a Porsche may not see wind or engine noise as a problem, and may expect frequent service and high repair costs as the nature of a performance car. An MB owner probably would take exception to the noise issues, and maybe even frequency of service, but probably expects high repair costs. Someone who buys a Jag generally knows about their long standing reliability issues, and may have lower expectations than a first time MB buyer. Likewise, a first time MB buyer (and there are a lot more of them now than in the past) may be expecting perfection, and be more likely to complain about something they would ignore in other cars. These cars are all designed and built to be marketed to different types of people, and it is unrealistic to expect a uniform response towards their cars.

Also, who is reporting the problems? A lot of these cars are high end machines that were 3-5 year leases, and not necessarily maintained like a long term investment. Is this the second owner complaining about problems they purchased? A long term ownership study limited to original owners of purchased (not leased) cars with over 70,000 miles might tell a very different story.

I try to go by what my mechanics say. My mechanic for Toyota/Lexus/Nissan/Infiniti/Honda/Acura says in the last 5 years quality has dropped, and he wouldn't own any of these with over 100,000 miles, as they will eat you alive in repairs. My MB tech says that there are models of MB he wouldn't own, at least in certain years, but other models he would own until they were rust, and would consider buying even with 150,000 miles on the clock.

Studies can be misleading, and it is difficult to design a study that is completely free of bias. Just my opinions of course



[Edited by JCE on 12-28-2000 at 02:41 AM]
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  #6  
Old 12-28-2000, 10:54 AM
LarryBible
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These type of surveys have been controversial for years.

What bothers me about them is the way that the problems are categorized. For instance, if I had a fuse blow once, replaced it for fifty cents, I would have to check a box saying that I had electrical problems. If I had a catestrophic, $5,000 computer and wiring harness failure, I would check the same box. Both problems would be registered the same.

Also as pointed out in another reply. Expectations change with different owners. Wind noise might not be a complaint from a Chevette owner, but a big one from an MB owner.

Also, these have to do with late model, low mileage vehicles. Where an MB really shines is over the long haul. If you trade at 50,000 miles, there are other cars that will work very well for you.

Happy New Year,
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  #7  
Old 12-30-2000, 02:50 PM
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I agree that its difficult to do this type of study, and those that do, usually miss something.
I am actually shocked that VW and Volvo made the bottom of the list while buick made #10..Something is wrong here.

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  #8  
Old 12-30-2000, 05:19 PM
johf
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Hi all:

I do not think that Mereceds has "cut corners" in its mechanical parts use in the cars.

But as a new 2001 C240 owner, I can clearly see that they have used a lot of low grade plactics in the interior. I had my car for three 3 1/2 months, and I constantly hear squeaks and rattles in in the interior. There is rattling noise one after another. The funny thing is that if one rattle noise goes away, a new one would appear. I have not heard anymore rattling noise in my car thses days, but the rear seat shifts when the car goes over potholes and bumps and the seat makes this "chuck chuck" noise. What's next?

Don't get me wrong, it is still a very nice car. I have owned so many cars and nothing can compare to the engineering of a Mercedes. This is the only car that I think I can like it to the point of owning it for more than 8 to 10 years. I intend to drive the car till its clocks at least 250,000km before trading it for another new Benz. Yes, despite the interior squeaks and rattles, my next new car would still be a Benz, probably one with a 4-matic and a bigger size engine (3.2L or so). Nothing drives like a Benz.


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[Edited by johf on 12-30-2000 at 05:27 PM]
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  #9  
Old 12-30-2000, 11:48 PM
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There was an article in the local paper's automotive section a couple of months ago regarding automobile reliability.
They measured it just by assessing the percentage of cars sold and still found on the road for the last 10 years for different automakers. It may not be scientific but for what it is worth Benz was by far the most reliable of all the cars included in the survey. I did not save the article so I am not sure about the exact percentage, however it was reported that over 95% of Benzes put on the road in the last 10 years is still running. Well mine is (86' 300E), in fact so beautifully with over 270K on the odometer, that the other day my girlfriend asked me if the car has stalled at an intersection because she could not tell if the engine was running. Beat that Toyota, Honda, Ford, etc. The other day some 16-year-old punks made some comments about how nice the car looks. That says something about the timeless design of these cars. Reliability this, cutting corners that, I will stick with Benz for as long as they make them.

Alex
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  #10  
Old 12-31-2000, 02:36 PM
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About styling your right. (AS well as with all the other things) However When I ask a non-Carperson what year my car is they say "oh a 94, 93,96" It really is a 87. With a fresh great looking paint job, new rims, and a over all its in perfect condition, the car really does not look like any other 1987 cars. I love it and will keep it. Currently I'm looking for a car to replace my 300E as a daily driver however, I'll keep it for a long time to come.

I want more Power
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  #11  
Old 01-07-2001, 05:13 PM
280c
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What Mercedes is doing

That report is idiotic. Nobody, and I mean nobody, buys a 911 for reliability. That car is a penis extension if there ever was one. Lexus cars, older ones, are about as collectible as sand. Japanese vehicles are made in such a way where everything fails at once. They are the king of lightweight, cheap parts.

Mercedes cars have always been somewhat overpriced. The 190's and other wanna be models were introduced to get people into mercedes. Whether it is stereo equipment, cars, or whatever, when people become devoted to a brand name, they tend to buy more expensive items the second time around. I would have never considered a new mercedes if it weren't for the SLK. The other cars are really neat, but just too expensive considering what can be had from Jaguar, BMW, cadillac, and other competitors. Mercedes is simply trying to broaden the range of people that shop for a mercedes. When I was a kid, only doctors, lawyers, and eccentrics had mercedes cars. Mercedes has always been more status symbol than anything else and they are trying to change that with the M class, SLK, C, and they are currently developing a line of really small cars for the european (7.00/gallon) market. They are just keeping up with the times, offering more products, and expanding their line. You can still buy a 500 or 600, for the same old high prices. You can't say that just because they have an affordable line, they are losing quality. The affordable cars are nowhere near the expensive ones, but they are not intended to be as good. I will restate that I wish Mercedes would have razor scooters at the beginning of the line all the way up to 200k roadster models. It would be more, not less.




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  #12  
Old 01-07-2001, 05:29 PM
280c
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Facts are Facts

The most reliable cars on the road are (Based on problem reports):
Acura Legend (now called the 3:5 RL), Chrysler 300M, Honda Accord, Lexus LS400, Toyota Camry.

I would not buy any of these cars under any circumstance, even if they lasted forever. I remember how the Japanese tourists acted at the Arizona memorial when I lived in Honolulu and I vowed to never buy another jap product.
Chryslers have been a horrible joke since I could remember even though they are supposed to be better now.

The most reliable vehicles on the road based on registered vehicles are far and away:

Chevrolet C/K trucks
Ford F-series trucks
Honda Accord
Honda civic

These stats have to do with overall sales more than anything else. People that have trucks usually need to keep then going so they are often cared for in a more critical way. 99% of people who buy a mercedes (or any car, really) do not understand the principles of internal combustion engines and don't work on their own cars. Mercedes owners, because of the cost of the vehicles, tend to take better care of their cars with routine maintenance and visits to the dealer. The alligator shoes in your closet last well because you take extra care of them, not because they are better than your tennis shoes.

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