I'm thinking on ic my car. This is my daily driver so I need to keep my A/C.

I've searched and read around this forum and other forums, but didn't really find anything specific that would help me in this venture.

The parts will be taken from the junk yard, and as for the tubing I'll as someone to make them for me.

How much hp gain I might get from this project, everything left stock? I know it depends on the size of the ic, most probably it'll ne a volvo ic taken from old 740 diesel.

How much hp can I gain by just better tuning my stock parts?

Till now I've been thinking of 2 places where to put the ic. Either the right wheel arch, behind the bumper and an auxiliary electric fan cooling it, or behind the water radiator. If I chose to put it in the wheelarch I'm afraid the tubing will be to long and loose some presure as well as the ic being a bit small. If I put it behind the water radiator, the ic needs to be slim enough to fit between the watter radiator and the engine fan. Also I don't think the the ic will be efectively cooled since it'll take the heat released from the A/C and water radiators. I already have my engine fan moded so it speens with the engine rpm, thus higher rpm more air flowing.

What do you think will be the better setup? Always keeping in mind the pros and cons of both setups.

Thanks, Deni

I've always loved the 2.5L turbo diesel engine. I've always wanted to own one b/c I'd mod the heck out of it. There are several approaches you could take. The easiest approach would be water injection. Since the manifold tends to gum up with crud in these diesels I think the steam would help keep the manifold clean inside allowing the engine to breathe at 100% capacity. So in that regard water injection may be better than an I/C. As for I/C's you have very little room behind the grill making a front-mount a real engineering challenge. The new air to water I/C's on the market could let you use the space in the fenders.
Regardless these mods don't actually give you a lot of power. They increase efficiency but you have to add fuel to get more power. Propane injection is probably the most common way of doing that. The propane also cools the mixture as it evaporates. The other methods of adding fuel involve the black art of injection pump tweaking. There are some Finnish guys on here that have got a M603 making over 400 hp. They've got a huge turbo, a front mount I/C that required a lot of modification, and a pump that's been modified for a lot more fuel.

I haven't dissambled my intake manifold yet, as I didn't think it'll be that much clogged that it might kill the performance. But since you say so, I'll see what I can do.

I've heard about water and propane injection but don't have a clue how they work. I'll google it and see if I can find something. Do you know any site where it's properly explained?

As for the IC there's about 3.5 inches of space between the engine fan and the water radiator. I also thought of placing the IC on top of the engine and cutting the engine hud. As for air to water ICs I don't think I can find them here in Albania (no one is into car tuning or anything tuning).

I've also read abut the crazzy finish tunings but I'm not aiming for a world speed record, or challenging ferraris, I just wanna add some more oomph to my car, as well as tuning the car just for the sake of fun (till now been tuning PCs, but this is way more difficult and expensive ).

Keep the ideas coming please!

Deni

If u can find an intercooler from 740 Volvo that would be great.
I wish I can slap a IC into my 80 300SD W116.

How to set up the water injection?
I am curious to know, it doesn't involve as much as adding an IC.

TIA

As I recall the 740 turbo ICs have a pretty high pressure drop like stock WRX ICs do, you may want to look into a more efficient core.

__________________
I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]

saabs have great intercoolers and they are generally like
10 or 15 bucks on ebay...

and its all the same thing.... volvo and saab all use garrett turbos.

I'm sticking on the IC as the water injection seems a bit complicated . As for the IC I was thinking on using an ic from a volvo 740 turbodiesel intercooler. I'm sure I can find them cheap over here. I can look for a Saab IC but I don't think I can find one, and if I do they won't be cheap. Ebay is not an option for me as I live in Albania (south Europe, between Greece, Yugoslavia and the Adriatic sea), so shiping alone would cost a lot more than the IC.

Practically these are some options I have on installing the IC:

1. In the right side wheelarch (like the oil radiator that sits on the left side wheelarch) coupled with an electric fan. Pros: Fairly easy to mount; Cons: Long pipes needed (possible loss of boost), Fairly small IC.

2. Behind the water radiator. Pros: A large IC can be mounted, Shor pipes needed), Cons: The IC needs to be pretty slim (around 3"), Intake manifold needs modifications (thought of installing a N/A intake manifold), The IC will be "cooled" by "not so cool" spoketoungeb.gif air going through the a/c and water radiators (the engine fan might stay as it is fixed, thus trying to better cool all the radiators).

3. My car has a 2 fan setup for the a/c, so taking one a/c fan off and in it's place placing the IC. Pros: Exellent direct cooling, fairly large IC; Cons: Don't know how the A/C will work with only one fan, fairly long piping thus possibility of loosing some boost.

4. Placing the IC on top of the engine (getting rid of the iron thing frolleyes.gif that connects the turbo and the intake manifold). Pros. Fairly big IC, extra short piping needed, fairly good cooling (if I cut the engine lid). Cons: Need to cut the engine lid lcrazy.gif .


Thanks for your input,

Deni

When you do the tubing for the IC make sure you use materials that can handle the high temps and pressures. Mandrel bent steel or aluminum are good options with ECO rubber cuffs to connect the aluminum to the IC and turbo. If the tubing is short you may be able to use rubber for the whole system instead of metal. ECO is oil resistant but you could also use a low swell EPDM rubber which is cheaper and easier to find. Either way the rubber portions should have fiber reinforcement like a radiator hose. It might be easiest to modify some off-the-shelf tubing. Don't forget to flare the tubing so that your rubber cuffs have something to hold onto, otherwise you will be blowing them off in no time. Standard worm gear clamps may not be sufficient to hold it together, try constant tension clamps or something similar. In order to keep restriction to a minimum you want to minimize the number of bends and maximize the bend radius. Also try to keep the inner diameter at least as big as the outlet ID of the turbo, if not bigger. Good luck!

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1987 300SDL 167k
1992 Volvo 740 140k
1990 Volvo 740 250k
1989 Volvo 240 269k

Anyone want to trade an old Volvo for an '87 300sdl?

Thanks for the comprehensive explanation! Sure I'll keep them in mind. I got an idea from a finish forum (forgot now the address) but I don't have to place the IC behind the water and A/C radiator. Instead I can back up those to radiators to make room for the Ic in front . Till now that's the best setup.

Also in this post I read that Saabs and Volvos use garret turbos. Do they provide more boost than my stock turbo? I'll google it, but I hope someone here knows it so it'll save me the hasle.

Cheers, Deni

You may want to check out this thread and site...

__________________
Tjohn

82 300 SD
77 450 SL (gone)

Here are some pictures of the intercooler I put in my project w123....these are early shots...I'll try to upload connected pictures latter!

Enjoy
Jake

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I doubt a sidemount would fit, and I don't like the ICs with plastic end tanks (e.g. 740), cuz you can't adapt them to fit as easily as aluminum. I ended up having one custom made to my design specs.

how about a sidemount intercooler from a 3000GT unless diesels heat them up to much and then they are null..

on the mitsu's running 14psi of boost those would suffice but anything higher than that youd need a fmic