I was just thinking, instead of going out and buying the Porsche Brake upgrade, or the Brembo or Alcon brakes even, and spending $4k and up, wouldn't it be cheaper just to stay in house. Like the new CLK55, it uses 8-pot calipers and hugh carbon-fiber rotors. I mean, you talk about power to stop, these will probably out do any other job you can get.

------------------
Chirag (Charlie) Patel

- 99 Mercedes-Benz ML 430 V8 w/custom TV, Video, UHF, speaker system
- 93 190E 2.6 (4-sale) w/ an amp, equalizer, and CD-changer, integrated w. stock stereo for integrated cellular phone speaker system
- had a 93 190E m103 3.2, 5-speed trans,
- had a 88 300E 2.6
- had a 84 300TD w/275k+ miles
- 2002 S500/S600 - Maybe in a little more then a year

The CL is the one, in Euro-spec trim, that runs the carbon rotors BTW.

Which car's brakes are you considering upgrading?? Or are you just kinda throwing this topic out there? Just curious, because if it's the ML I've not seen previous discussions regarding your options. As to upgrades to something like the CL's brake setup, it must be HUGE bucks, eh?!?


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All the best, Michael
500E
300TE

I wa actually just throughing it out, and I thought the CL used the ceramic discs? You might be right though. As for the ML, I was considering to leave it. I acutally just completed a 93 400E brake upgrade on my 93 190E. So that said, my budget is a little bit on the empty side right now. Especailly since I ran into unexpected costs. Like rubbing of wheels against calipers, and so forth. I now have 4 stock wheels, 4-SLK 16x7 wheels, 2-16x8 SLK wheels, and 4-16x7.5 8-hole replica wheels. Hope to get everything together soon. Price of trial and error I guess.

------------------
Chirag (Charlie) Patel

- 99 Mercedes-Benz ML 430 V8 w/custom TV, Video, UHF, speaker system
- 93 190E 2.6 (4-sale) w/ an amp, equalizer, and CD-changer, integrated w. stock stereo for integrated cellular phone speaker system
- had a 93 190E m103 3.2, 5-speed trans,
- had a 88 300E 2.6
- had a 84 300TD w/275k+ miles
- 2002 S500/S600 - Maybe in a little more then a year

I have a '92 190E 2.6L and would like to know about your 400E brake upgrade. Except for your wheel issues, was it a direct mechanical swap? no extra brackets? brake lines worked too? I also understand that the 500E Brembo brakes would fit.

__________________
Steve
1989 560 SEC

My biggest problem was the wheels. I was so stuck on the 16x7 SLK wheels. Well, the things that need to be changed are the Brake Calipers, Rotors, and Pads. That was it for me. I believe the master cylinder was fine in the 2.6s, cause that didn't need changing. I ws told that the 500E brakes required some more work with the hub. So I avoided that.

The best bet is to go with 94-95 E420 brakes, the rotors are 25.4 mm wide instead of the 22.4mm 93 E400 brakes. Also, I heard the 94-95 had better calipers then the 92-93. I couldn't find any 94-95 used or refurbished in the time frame I needed it, so I went to the 92-93 setup. I used carparts.com since they had very decent prices. I got Brembo rotors from them, vented, and Semi-Metallic Street pads. They are great, don't squeal and are real nice. I took it back to MB and had the dealer flush the system and pump the pressure back into my brakes. Find wheels that clear a 94-95 E420, and you are set to go.

I love them, They stop on a dime. No fade. And you can summon oversteer into hard corners easily now. I love the way my 16" plus 1, new shocks and struts and brakes changed my car. I would recommend the brake upgrade if you got the patience. I would also recommend getting them painted (really looks nice) before you put them on. The job wasn't that hard, just dismount your old rotors, calipers, and pop the new ones on.

Good Luck. Any questions, post back.

__________________
Chirag (Charlie) Patel
--------------------------------------------
- 03 Mercedes S600 Sport TTV12
- 97 Acura NSX-T
- 99 BMW E36 M3 w/500+ HP
- 04 Lexus RX330
- 04 Dodge Dakota Quad 4x4 V8

4 Sale:
- 99 BMW M3 E36 Coup with Dinan SC, Upgraded to an RMS Stage 3 with Aftercooler, 12psi, and 500+hp @ flywheel.

Charlie,

Where did you get the calipers? The '94 E420 units cost almost $700 each from the dealer! Rotors are cheap compared to that. The MB dealer has factory remanufactured calipers, but no stock. I'm zeroing in on a cost effective setup for the street. Thanks,

__________________
Steve
1989 560 SEC

http://www.CarParts.com or Potomac German at http://www.benzparts.com And they had them. Make sure they don' tsend you the 92-93s. And call them in person because it takes them a while to source the parts. I heard the 500E were simple bolt on, but also heard contrary about the hub, so I avoided that route. I used Beck Arnley, Rotors (basically Brembo rotors) and their pads, a little better then OEM pads.

__________________
Chirag (Charlie) Patel
--------------------------------------------
- 03 Mercedes S600 Sport TTV12
- 97 Acura NSX-T
- 99 BMW E36 M3 w/500+ HP
- 04 Lexus RX330
- 04 Dodge Dakota Quad 4x4 V8

4 Sale:
- 99 BMW M3 E36 Coup with Dinan SC, Upgraded to an RMS Stage 3 with Aftercooler, 12psi, and 500+hp @ flywheel.

I just found some '94 calipers. New rotors are easy around here. Luckily I can get them professionally drilled too! Next item will be pads. Has anyone used the carbon metallic style? They supposedly don't dust.

Steve

__________________
Steve
1989 560 SEC

I heard that brakes without the metallic contenet squeal alot. Or that might just be brake pads without asbestos. Something like that. Good luck. I like the slotted rotors, and then get them drilled. That would be a killer combo :-D

__________________
Chirag (Charlie) Patel
--------------------------------------------
- 03 Mercedes S600 Sport TTV12
- 97 Acura NSX-T
- 99 BMW E36 M3 w/500+ HP
- 04 Lexus RX330
- 04 Dodge Dakota Quad 4x4 V8

4 Sale:
- 99 BMW M3 E36 Coup with Dinan SC, Upgraded to an RMS Stage 3 with Aftercooler, 12psi, and 500+hp @ flywheel.

Charlie,

Just checking, what about the backing plates, did they accommodate the larger rotors? How much larger in diameter are the '94 E420 rotors than the '92 2.6L 190E's? No need to change the brake lines right? Slam Dunk!

I've priced this set up out, with all new factory pieces, at about $1800. I'm going salvage on the calipers this time.

calipers and rotors on the way.
Deciding on pads.
Stopping hard before Xmas

.

__________________
Steve
1989 560 SEC

I don't have the exact specs on me. As far as the brake shields in the rear, all you need to do is bend them back a little. The brake lines are fine, however, its the perfect time to upgrade them too. I didn't because I wasn't sure which company to go with. As Lee says, Some swer by them, others swear at them. AS far as the parts, same thing I did. Salvaged calipers are the best way of going in my opinion.

Good Luck.

__________________
Chirag (Charlie) Patel
--------------------------------------------
- 03 Mercedes S600 Sport TTV12
- 97 Acura NSX-T
- 99 BMW E36 M3 w/500+ HP
- 04 Lexus RX330
- 04 Dodge Dakota Quad 4x4 V8

4 Sale:
- 99 BMW M3 E36 Coup with Dinan SC, Upgraded to an RMS Stage 3 with Aftercooler, 12psi, and 500+hp @ flywheel.

A little help please,

I was doing a test fit before I cleaned and detailed all my components. I came across a problem. The E420 rotors look like a nice fit but the caliper bracket from the 190 doesn't clear the E420 rotor or support the E420 caliper. They were not included with the used calipers I purchased. Do you remember needing to get this seperately and or was it included with your calipers?

__________________
Steve
1989 560 SEC

After further review!!! It looks like they bolt directly to the spindle and eliminate the bracket. Is this how yours went together?

__________________
Steve
1989 560 SEC

Check out this link on braking authored by actual racers, and not someone trying to sell you a brake upgrade.

http://www.teamscr.com/grmbrakes.htm

In short:

"In summary, brake system modifications have their place to help make your ride more consistent, predictable, and user-friendly; however, if your ultimate goal is to decrease your stopping distance, look no further than the four palm-sized patches of rubber connecting your ride to the ground."

In other words, get the widest and stickest rubber you can afford and still not adversly affect the handling of your vehicle.

Take care,

:-) neil

Neil,

Thanks for your concern.

I had the same reaction when I saw that the MB shops were selling Brembo big brake kits for over $3000. Overspending isn't in my old Hotrodding dictionary.

I have been one of the real racers you refer to in your post. In my experience with racing production based cars there is always a better "factory" set up. A brake set up that stays within reason, without going to extreme.

When I raced a Sprite I used MGB brakes, the Mustang got bigger full-size Ford Calipers up front. Although the Mini Cooper does have really big 12" front rotors, about what I have on the 190 now. There is only so much tire you can put on a car. In fact I had to narrow the tires on my sprite because they created too much drag!

So with the 190 I knew there must be something else that was a bolt on upgrade. Of course there was, I used V8 brakes from another MB that shared the same suspension setup. The pedal feels great; the stopping effort is just what I wanted. All for a lot less $$ than a set of tires, which I already upgraded. Tires don't dissipate brake heat either.

Physics is an interesting subject. I'd rather be a driver.

Thanks again,

__________________
Steve
1989 560 SEC