Capt Alex: I would be very happy to meet up with you and either beat the crap out of 'em with my car or my fist, your choice! An 89 Deville isn't really even worth arguing about. I've owned the top-of-the-line Cadddicrap Seville STS MY '89, 90, 91,93,95 and 97. The Northstar is the best engine that caddicrap produced, which by the way, is based on the LT-5 engine in the Corvette ZR-1 designed by Lotus. It is fast and powerful, but the FWD design is unstable and the torque steer will rip your hands off the wheel on hard acceleration. Bottom line, engine too powerful for the chassis and FWD- that's why they are going to RWD. I drove rental cars most of the time because they were always in the shop with the same problems that could not be fixed. Caddicrap couldn't engineer its way out of a paper bag!
Now the MB content-The E55 is the best car I ever owned-period!
ZYa
Gary

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http://clubs.snap.com/mercedesbenze55registry/index.lhtml
00 AMG E55
96 DCM Impala SS
94 ZR-1
81 Corvette Cpe

I have a couple of 500E's that would love to have a caddy for breakfast

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Cheers!

Yen-Hsen Liem
'93 500E black pearl/black leather; 89,000km; 245/45-ZR17 Michelin Pilot SX; 17x8.25 factory EvoII
'93 500E bornit(blackberry)/black leather; 69,000km; european delivery; 245/45-ZR17 Michelin Pilot SX; 17x8.25 factory EvoII
'88 560SL desert taupe/dark brown leather; 89,000km; Euro headlights
'87 190E 2.3-16 black pearl/black leather; 55,000mi; Euro headlights
'70 280SL white/red; 135,000mi (original); factory alloys; Euro headlights

Wow this is a funny topic. My mom has an 88 Caddilac Sedan Deville, and I have an 89 MB 190E 2.6 That thing came from factory with a 4.5 liter V8 with around 150 horses from what I have heard and it is no competition against a 400 or 420. I am very confident that once I get above 30 mph in my 190 I could smoke it. And I seriously doubt it goes over 105 or 110 because I learned to drive in it it. At 85 miles per hour the speedo start flashing and won't read any higher. That always makes me mad. My 190 supposedly does 130 and I have gone to 120 my self. If that caddilac was even able to reach 120 you would not want to be there for long. Try going around a curve on the highway in a caddilac and then try a MB. I floor my car in turns, when in the caddilac hit the brakes!
Summary: The caddilac is front wheel drive, low horsepower,low top end, low mileage, bulky, heavy, wobbly, and not made to handle. GIVE ME A BREAK!


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Rob C
89 190E 2.6
Beige

My uncle once (many years ago) had a big Cadillac sedan. The two things I remember from riding in it were 1. very plush ride 2. this is one heck of a boat. With the front-wheel drive on top of that, I can't imagine how there'd be any contest in terms of handling.

Also, that 150-hp 4.5L V8 is kind of surprising. Our '89 Astro has a 4.3L V6 that puts out 143 hp, two extra cylinders and a bit more displacement only gets you ~10 more hp? (maybe they're tuned for torque? Our van certainly is.. ) At any rate, I can't imagine how an early-year 300E would be any heavier than a late 80s cadillac - if anything you ought to be lighter than him. That, plus an extra 20-hp, I sure hope he's either pulling your leg, or sunk a lot of money into mods, because it sure doesn't look like an even contest there either.

Egg him on to find a 500E or AMG benz, he'll get eaten alive.

anthony

I have driven both a E430 (98 or 99 not sure) and a cadillac Devile (a new one 2000) and i know for a fact that the devile would be smoked by the benz. The Devile is a big car more likey to compete with the S-Class and not a E-Class if I am not mistaken.
The benz would win.
Mu friend had a 89 Devile 4.5 and my E320 could easly take him. I think that your race would have a simmlar outcome.
Go and beat that sucker.

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-1999 ML320
-1995 E320
-1994 E420 (lowered 1.5 in useing Eibach)
-1980 300D
-Had 1985 300TD Wagon (for over 10 yrs)
-Had 1993 190E 2.3

1st; I was in the car industry for years. The 89 does not have a Northstar, 2nd; The older Northstar has 275 HP, not 300. 3rd, I can tell you one thing to say that will burst his pacemaker; No one is getting laid in a Caddie and someone would call the police if he pulled up at the Ritz in Beverly Hills is a crap heap Caddie of ANY year.
Ask him to race from the city to the desert in 118-degree Palm Springs weather at top speed with the A/C on. See what he says.
Last; Virtually every year since the 1930's top of the line Mercedes has ALWAYs received "Best Automobile money can Buy" from quoted sources. Caddie has NEVER had one single year EVER with that distinction. Another thing; You can pic a Caddie up at any auction for 3,000 back of WHOLESALE. FACT. MBZ normally gets retail or in between. Ask your "pal" to drive a Caddie that has 150,000 miles on it and then ask him to drive an MBZ with 300,000 on it. (By the way, there is a reason you will NEVER see a 300,000K Caddie. None exist. MBZ engines have an extremely high nickel content and are made with precision. MBZ had fuel injection and 4 wheel disc brakes back in the 1930's!! Caddie didn't even have airbags (an MBZ invention along with side impact beams and crumple zones) until the 1990's.
Lastly; Ask him to price a pristine 1957 Caddie, about the most desirable they have which would get about $30 - $50,000 and then price a 1940's model Cabrio MBZ at about $450,000. Ask him to explain that one. Then as he's thinking, kick him in the balls for aggravating all of us. He's an idiot and has to lie to win arguments and he doesn't even know the facts!!


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Your killing me CA Benz!!!!

[This message has been edited by yal (edited 11-13-2000).]

By the way, Caddie's have always had a speed limiter that shuts off the fuel at about 108MPH. Don't tell him that, just race him and get out in the open. If you REALLY want to shut his lying ass up, ask him (with a dead pan expression on your face) to race for pink slips only. 50 mile race, winner losses all AND you get to screw his wife. He'll go meekly away promise.
I raced a 1999 Caddie to the Grand Canyon with my 1991 300E that has 170,000K on the odometer. After his fuel shut off and his suspension started pogoing the car, I blew by him at 138MPH and never saw his face again. That's a fact. That 300E sucked down tight to the ground like a stock car at around 120 and got better as it climbed. I also had the A/C on and the outside temp was 116. I made it back fro the Grand Canyon in 7 hours 10 minutes and have the gas reciepts with time stamps to prove it. How do I know all this? My grandfather has a 1998 STS which I have driven many a time...

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Oh man I eat this stuff up!! It's just I work a lot and I REALLY love cars/MBZ's. I love humiliating loud mouths (I'm one myself).... like the Caddie owner.
Latest-
THIS IS STRAIGHT FROM CADILLAC!!!!!
The 1989 DeVille was a 4.5 Liter Overhead Valve engine!! Ha, Ha!! The MBZ is a Single overhead cam!! An overhead valve eng. is a complete piece of crap. It's 60-year-old technology!
DeVille- 155 Horsepower at 4000 rpm. He has to rev to the moon to get that 155! Your MBZ makes it's 180HP down low at 1,500 rpm. Being an overhead valve, the Caddie's reaction time to fuel and acceleration is in the dinosaur ages. List price was $25,442 next to your $46,870. There was no luxury tax on his but was on yours. Tell him you could have bought 2 Caddies for the price of your 1 MBZ.
$3,600 is the wholesale on his car. Being that you can knock off an extra grand because no one would ever pay wholesale for a Caddie, especially an 89', you can also tell him the value of his 155 horse over head valve V-8 couldn't pay for the hood emblem on your Benz. Not only that but his Caddie is a pimp car and only families in the Bronx own them.
Now, if you can't beat a front wheel drive-wheezing-overhead-valve 155HP Caddie I don't ever want to talk to you again!
Signed,
"With Glee"

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Two 1991 300E's
2000 E55
2001 Brabus CL500

CB-
While I agree with u on the Caddy being junk, I can't agree with your overhead valve engine comment. The GENIII Chevy small block is highly reliable and puts out 385 HP from the factory. Do some valve and head work and your looking at appx. 425 HP with this 60 YO technology. This old technology produced close to 400 PP 40 years ago. Get really crazy and with practice, you too could take the pole at Leguna Seca! I hate Caddy with a passion-but,the Northstar engine itself is excellent. I never had a Northstar fail in 8 years of ownership. The rest of the car fell apart, not the engine. BTW,Northstar is copied from the LOTUS designed LT-5 motor.
All this said, the E55 is the best car I ever owned! DEATH TO CADILLAC!
Gary

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http://clubs.snap.com/mercedesbenze55registry/index.lhtml
00 AMG E55
96 DCM Impala SS
94 ZR-1
81 Corvette Cpe

I agree that newer caddies are junk, and also on the merits of the venerable Chevy pushrod v-8's. I have quite a bit of experience and miles on chevy engines, and if maintained at all, they can be very reliable, make good power, and are cheap to fix. This is true for the v-8, and older inline 6's, but not so much the newer smaller engines. Some of the older big blocks had very high nickel content, steel cranks, chromoly rings etc.
The other parts of the vehicle, well lets just say many of them left a lot to be desired. Not exactly german engineering.
All in all, no comparison between german and anything else.

Ask him to put money to where his big mouth is. How about putting up money (say $50,000) in a lawyer's trust account and we'll have an official bet. I'm sure we'll have enough sponsors in this forum to rent a drag strip, hire inspectors to ensure both cars are stock, ship an E55 or CLK55 there, and each get some healthy return.

On the overhead valve vs. SOHC/DOHC. Of coarse the overhead was reliable and was a great motor. WAS. This isn't 1803 anymore. All I'm saying is compared to a MODERN engine, it's a piece.... There is absolutely no way you can compare the performance of a multivalve overhead variable timing engine to an overhead valve. I have owned over 8 GM cars, including hotrods. They are nice to collect and fun to drive. But the best a 69' Goat did was in the mid 6's 0 - 60 and high 13 -low 14's in the quarter. Same with the Camaro's. In the mid 7's and 15's. These numbers belay their technology and weight ratios. Just about any 4-cylinder econo coupe can pull mid 7's and 14's now days. There is a place for an overhead valve engine-A lawnmower, a pristine 67' Stingray and a museum. Even Harley Davidson, a stickler for tradition, now has fuel injection and an SOHC.
And one last thing, the Caddie is over 4000 pounds and I checked, the 0 - 60 is 10.2 seconds. On par with a Chevy Suburban!
Enough said I think we have all over done this Caddie subject... Me included.


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Two 1991 300E's
2000 E55
2001 Brabus CL500

hey california benz,

I know this is off the topic but how do those monoblocks look on your 300e? I thought they didn't make amg monoblocks in 16's

As far as I know they no longer make them. My friend at Penske Motors Mercedes had a set that a customer put on his C280 and didn't like them so took them off the same day. I picked them up for $200 a piece in the box. The only available sizes now I think are 15, 17, 18 and so on.