First pics 5.0 M117 into 190e (UK) - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

bladerunner30 · #1 01-25-2006, 05:52 AM

Thought I'd share the first pics of my project with you, I'm currently putting an M117 5.0 V8 (out of my old 1990 500se that caught the rust bug!) into my 190e.

Just lining it up as it is now, it looks like I'll be able to retain the steering box etc. I'm currently working on fabricating the engine and gearbox mounts, then I'll start on the wiring! The only mod I've had to make so far is the metal around the fusebox had to be hammered back a little as it was in the way of the cylinder bank.

I'll keep the post updated with pics and information every now and then as I'm working through the project. Although with dark nights and a family, time is short!!

reinier · #2 01-26-2006, 06:45 AM

Nice fit!

In a few months (this year for sure) i will start also with putting a V8 (32valve m119) in a 190, so maybe we can help each other!

bladerunner30 · #3 01-26-2006, 05:12 PM

That's gonna be an even tighter squeeze than the M117. There's a guy on www.mbcoupes.com who put an M119 in a W126 SEC, looked snug even in that.

Good luck though, and let me know how you get on - I'll hopefully have my engine properly mounted by mid next week, so at least I can move the thing and get it in my garage to do the wiring, it's no fun working outside in 0 degrees C....!!

Cheers, Martin

reinier · #4 01-27-2006, 06:01 AM

Yes, will be hard to get the 32v v8 in there, but i am not in a hurry....
Most important tools will be an angle grinder and a welding machine

Anyway, i am gonna make it myself a bit more dificult: i want to lay the engine as far as possible to the rear. My goal is to get the flywheel about UNDER the windscreen-wiper-motor. This means that some parts have to be changed very much. For instance the heater blower.

In the end though, the weight distribution will be better.

I am planning doing this on my 190d, which i a have now as my daily driver. As soon as i finish my renault clio 2.0 16v for track use (couple of weeks), and my other daily driver (w123 diesel) is recovered from its winter sleep, i am pulling the 2.0 diesel from the 190.
I bought this car a bit damaged on the left front angle. When replacing some chassis parts on that side, i didnt weld them in place (like they are original), but i attached them with a lot of small screws.
This way, the whole left front angle can be removed very easily. When the 'thriller' begins, i am planning on doing this to the other side as well.

This way it will be a lot easier placing, and working on the large v8 engine.

altz · #5 01-30-2006, 01:40 PM

well actually the weight is not so big problem, cause M119 uses alloy block while m113 (2.6 etc) uses metalblock wich is allmost at the same weight and as you know, the 2.6 190e came from stock aswell...

bladerunner30 · #6 01-30-2006, 03:52 PM

Sounds like a lot more work than mine will (hopefully) end up being! Having said that, this is my first 'car' project (mostly played with modifying bikes up until now!), so we'll just have to see how it goes!

Just as a matter of interest, whereabouts are you based? I'm guessing UK or Europe seeing as you've prepped a 2.0 Clio for the track?

Are you expecting to have to switch to rack and pinion steering? I'd guess that you probably will? I've considered it myself too (mostly for exhaust manifold clearance issues), possibly out of an E30 3 series BMW, as it's a similar sized vehicle.... Any thoughts on it?

Cheers, Martin

reinier · #7 01-31-2006, 05:17 AM

I live in the Netherlands, so you are right about that!

As far as the steering: I am afraid I cant do it without rack and pinion steering. I've read here some things about that, and i believe it is very much work to get it done right, so that it handles well. Read a post of Tobias, who put a Chevy or Ford V8 in a 190, and he said it was more work to convert to rack and pinion, than to place the engine......

But I will look at other possibilities when the engine sits in place.
Maybe:
-when the engine sits a lot more to the rear, i will have less problems..
-i can lead the exhaust pipe to another direction, to the front for instance, maybe do something with the manifold...
-Steering box from a 190 without power steering is smaller, if there are any...

Anyway, I will do a lot to keep the original steering box, but until the engine sits in place, I cannot say its possible.

As you say: the cilinder heads of the 32v are almost 1,5 times wider.....

Maybe later on I'll laugh out loud for my idea of keeping the original steering box

reinier · #8 01-31-2006, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by altz

well actually the weight is not so big problem, cause M119 uses alloy block while m113 (2.6 etc) uses metalblock wich is allmost at the same weight and as you know, the 2.6 190e came from stock aswell...

I also thought of that, yes. But it is always better to put the weight as close to the middle as possible.
And I heard some people say that a 190 with a V8 would be dramatically understeered. But they dont drive a 190 with V8.... But you hold this in your mind when thinking about this project.

And my almost standard 190 2.3 16v is also to much understeered, and it has only a four cilinder!!!
Mercedes makes the handling of their cars understeered, period. For all the nitwits who cant drive.....

So in the end, to lose understeer, I definately need to get more camber on the front wheels, but as is said: thats also needed with only a four cilinder.

To get a standard 190 into a drift, you have to throw with the car, and put the power on at the same time.
Just flooring it when riding in a wet corner, it still goes understeer...
Believe me: i know

reinier · #9 01-31-2006, 08:05 AM

30 minutes ago, dream come true! Comes a guy ive never seen before here at the door, asks if my 190 2.3-16v is for sale. Said no, and start talking with him about 190's 16v. He also has a 16v, which he sometimes races at racetracks, but has got a lot of rust. So he is looking for a replacement.
Then, after 15 minutes he (by the way) mentions has also got a 500E.
I said: have you got it with you? says yes. So we go look at his 500E.
I said: I'm afraid to ask (joke)......
I thought, ill ask him if HE can show me the power of the V8, and how fast it is.
So he walks to the passenger side, and steps in the car at that side.......

no-one else but me was standing outside the car, no-one was in the drivers seat, the engine was running and warm

Took it for a spin off course!! This thing keeps on going and going and going and going, no signs that it had gotten tired, keeps on going and going...etc.
180 km/u where 80 was allowed....Then had to brake because i was in the next village. Back the same way... If you couldnt feel the force that pulls you in the seat, and couldnt sea the speedometer, it would be dull, so silent is this car. Imagine what such an engine does in a car which is 400 kg lighter....bit more engine-noise.....

You can understand im happy now!

Anyway, got to go now, Catherine Zeta Jones is at the door now!

t walgamuth · #10 01-31-2006, 10:12 PM

a v8 in the 190 i would buy a big heavy diesel battery and put it in the pass rear side trunk. this will go a long way toward making the balance neutral. someone posted a thread with engine weights recently and the v8 aluminum was only about 20 pounds heavier than the 602 diesel and lighter than the 603 i believe. i think the 2,6 gasser would be nearly the same as a 602 in weight.

i would try to keep as much stock as possible so future maintenance is more possible.

tom w

Maddog · #11 02-01-2006, 12:28 PM

I'd be interested to see a picture of how close you are to that steering box.

bladerunner30 · #12 02-02-2006, 04:01 AM

It's not the greatest photo in the world, but it should hopefully give you a good idea of how close it is. The top bit, where the nut is is approx 10mm away from the block, it gets progressively further away as the V narrows towards the crank.

reinier · #13 02-02-2006, 04:05 AM

I have plenty of room on that side of the engine bay!

altz · #14 02-02-2006, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reinier

I have plenty of room on that side of the engine bay!

Jeah me to, but @ te other side?

t walgamuth · #15 02-02-2006, 11:51 PM

an engine rocks around a lot and you dont want it banging into the steering nut. you might need to shim that side motor mount a little to lean the engine over to the right a bit.

tom w