just trying to help.

there is a lot of continuity in the benz line. the more things you have to fab the more trouble you will have making repairs later, and the less sellable the car will be.

i have kicked around a lot of swaps in my day but been pretty conservative in actual practice. and when tired of them were able to sell them along without much loss.

thanks for the apology. i was feeling dissed.

tom w

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Woa ... that car sound FUN! You have a gallery or message thread detailing the car?

P.S. NC... I wish you were closer. would love to talk you into taking on a C43/55 for a manual tranni mod as a new project.

sorry for jak'n the thread...

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[ Old 210 E55s never die ... they turn into 202 C55s ][ SpeedyBenz Custom Suspension ][ MBenzNL On Board ]

yeah, I'd be into the product of that project too

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

Thanks Tobias, but I am on the other side of the giant water splash: europe.
So american manual (6 speed) gearboxes are very hard to find over here, also usa carparts like the clutch you mention.
So i focus on european manufacturers.
Already have a couple of Getrag BMW 6sp boxes (also capable of easy handling 400bhp (e39 M5, Skyline, Supra), and am in the middle of making my own adapter plate. It looks, as if i only have to fabricate a custom flywheel (besides the custom adapter plate) and remove some material out of the BMW bellhouse, for the topdeadcenter-sensor.
For the rest i probably can use original oem parts.

Also gonna use the original ringgear from the flexplate, and original starter, on the original place.

I have carefully measured the bolt pattern of the m119 and the M5 tranny. I had to modify some bolts on a turning lathe, and put a centerpoint in them, to to this, along with a few other helping 'tools'
A carefully layed these patterns over each other on a 2 mm steel plate (just to check which way to go), and the 20mm aluminium plate.
There are 2 holes on the m119 that i cannot use, because the bolts of the m5 tranny are to close. But with a custombracket i can still attach the m119 to the alu plate at that point (2 holes @ underside).

Then drilled and tapped the right holes in the alu plate. The tranny fits well to the plate, but for the engine 2 holes have to be redone.

Then I needed the ring-shape adapter cut out of the plate, with a big hole in the middle for the flywheel. Found some euros in my socks (97 to be exact, damn, its just a hobby..... ), and brougth the plate to a company that cuts all types of material very accurate with very high pressure water nozzles.
Next week it will be ready.

Then i will redo that 2 holes, make some pictures, and fit the tranny to the m119.
Then all I need to do is make me a custom flywheel, but maybe first i will try and see if the package fits, or can be fitted in the w201 engine bay.

You've got a good start to resolve the problem. Did your 201 chassis have a 4 or 6cyl. engine in it? When I first did mine I didn't want to cut the radiator header out of the car and this caused me to install the motor/tranny vertically into the car while it was raised off the floor. Later on I cut the support and made it removeable or you can adapt the 6cyl. one in. This saves lots of effort/grief down the road later on.
Use a dial indicator to double check for any runout between the engine and tranny as this will cause problems quickly if not running true. Can you also use the M5 pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft or have to use a custom made bronze one? When making the flywheel, don't bother with an aluminum one as they are for racing etc and the engine will idle better with more mass...just like OE! A good steel one, not cast iron, will work just fine.
Keep us posted as to your advancement on your project....

TobiasMB
190/5.8

reinier, Please tell me you are taking pictures... That sounds fantastic.

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[ Old 210 E55s never die ... they turn into 202 C55s ][ SpeedyBenz Custom Suspension ][ MBenzNL On Board ]

Sure I am taking pictures! But first i must achieve something thats worth photographing.

@Tobias:
The car is original a 4 cilinder diesel.......
Why?
-Have 2 2.3-16v's, but dont wanna sacrifice them in case something goes wrong
-diesel car hasnt got a sunroof like the 16v's: i hate sunroofs, the rust and leak, and not for a 'race' car.
-I already made almost the complete nose of the diesel detachable (speednuts). I can tear the front down so much, that you cannot recognize it anymore as a mercedes not looking at the engine or suspension.

So i have maximum entrance when putting in the engine.

As for the the bearing of the tranny shaft: dont know yet, want to use a normal bearing
Flywheel: Dont know yet. Bad iddling doesnt matter: i want this car pure for track-fun

Running in line, checking that with a dial gauge..... I think i know what you mean, but not sure..... Can you explain this a bit more?

You mean: check if the center of the gearbox is at the exact same place as the center of the crankshaft, but how am i gonna do that?
The bellhouse is fully closed, cannot stick a dial gauge in there.
Picture maybe?

great thread!!! been away from the MB scene for a bit while building hot VW 16v's....

has anyone done a 420sel 126 engine/trans swap into the 190e W201?

i have a complete 420 and a very clean 190e....

would be able to swap the whole thing - wiring, fueling etc from the donor. Wondering how much fitting, modding etc this would take. Have tools - can mod

any pointers?

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so reiner.....have you had any luck with your adapter plate? I'm starting to think more seriously about using the BMW box, and any advice you have would be greatly appreciated. Obviously the m117 may very well have a slightly different bolt pattern than the m119, but I think it will be close enough since the engine lineage is common. Also, any thoughts yet on a flywheel? Thanks in advance!

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

Yes, the plate is almost ready. It was hard to get all the holes in the right place. In fact only a few were right.
Already had 4 holes welded up before, and today it looked like I have to weld up some more.

But the bright side is, that today, the fitting bushes (or how dou you call them, bushes that put the tranny in exact the right place) from the MB pattern AND from the BMW pattern, are in exact the right place.

Made various tools etc on my turning lathe, to get the bushes in the right place, but now thats OK. This way the center of the BMW 'box is in exact the same place as the center of the M119 engine.

Now its just some holes welding up, and then bore them again in the right place.
Bit difficult to explain.

Anyway: when im done you'll hear it, and to save yourself a lot of work when you use a BMW 6 speed box: I can make a mole probably when im done.

wow....that would be awesome...do you know if the bolt patterns for the 119 and 117 are the same?

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car

dont know, dont have a m117 lying around, and dont know anyone who does.

m119 & m117 share the same bolt pattern.

cool...I had a feeling that they would since I was told that the 116 and 117 blocks were geometrically identical (wrt the exterior) and the 119 was derived from this lineage of V8's

also, does the length of the M5 tranny pilot shaft (and bearing) work with the m119 crank? I would hate to have to modify/replace the trans shaft too.....

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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car