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  #46  
Old 07-07-2006, 12:22 AM
BalconesTexas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Austin Tx.
Posts: 78
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYNAVY
I posted this in the 190e/V8 thread, but I think it got lost in some of the replies about Tobias' 190. Anyhow, I had some questions regarding an MB V8 swap into the w201....

I've been looking at either getting a hold of a 5.0 m119, or a 5.6 m117 for the swap. The car is a '91 2.6 BTW....basically, I'm just curious which one would be more feasible. From what I can tell, the '117 has a few advantages over the 119

-cheaper
-more readily available from recycling yards, ebay, etc
-uses old injection system (CIS-E right?)

but then the 119 has some advantages too

-more power (probably the biggest thing)
-more efficient intake/airbox

I'm a mechanical engineering student so I think that I have a pretty good grasp on a lot of the technical stuff, but I would like to stay away from anything that will require a ton of fabrication. People have mentioned that the steering box had to be swapped out in favor of a rack/pinion system.....although I could do that if necissary, it would be preferrable not to. Does anyone know anything about an MB V8 swap into the w201, and how much fabrication and general banging around would be involved?

Also, does anyone have any idea what a good manual transmission would be for either of these engines? (5 or 6 spd only....not a fan of 4-spd)

Right now I'm leaning towards getting the m117 and possibly building it up at some later date....

Thanks for any help that anyone can offer!!

Ive had one before. It was back in the early eighties. I didnt like it very much. It was 5.0 117 motor in a @ 85 201. Auto trans with no known suspension or brake mods. It was fast in a straight line but the ride quality stunk. Its too front heavy with a cast motor. It makes the car feel real short too.........

Not to derail your thread but im thinkin of building a late model CLK drag/bracket race car. I might even try a 129 chassis. I think I can get one into the 10's pretty easy and drive it home. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/images/icons/icon6.gif
Cool

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  #47  
Old 07-07-2006, 12:34 AM
mbc43amg's Avatar
-Dainbramaged-
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: 40*-55'-44" N / 73*-24'-07" W
Posts: 125
Austin TX ... bummer. I need a guy like you here on LI to put my extra 4.3L AMG engine in my Jeep.
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  #48  
Old 07-07-2006, 12:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Coast
Posts: 228
Balcones- that's interesting that you experienced that; I had understood that the aluminum m117 was actually lighter than the m103 (original motor for my car).......maybe this is not true after all, or perhaps the difference you noticed could be attributed to a different distribution of engine mass?

I plan on using the more powerful 5.6L motor, so I will have slightly more power and displacement to play around with. The car has had significant suspension modifications, although I'm sure everything will need adjustment after I install the new engine. The other thing that will need some work is the wheel/tire combination, which can certainly affect over/understeer. Lastly, I will be using a 16v steering gear box instead of the looser standard 2.6 box.

Any progress w/ the m119 reiner? Don't know if you saw my previous post, but how do the crankshaft and transmission input shafts match up with your adapter plate?
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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car
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  #49  
Old 07-07-2006, 06:26 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYNAVY
Any progress w/ the m119 reiner? Don't know if you saw my previous post, but how do the crankshaft and transmission input shafts match up with your adapter plate?
Dont know for sure what you mean, but:

-the adapter plate as it is now, will have the center of the tranny shaft at the exact same place as the center of the crankshaft.

-Dont want to modify the tranny shaft either, thats for sure. I am gonna make the custom flywheel that way, that i dont have to adjust the crank or the tranny shaft.

No more news yet, to busy with a lot of things, and now 3 weeks on a holiday!
So August or September pictures of the adapter plate, after that fit the package in the 190 engine bay, and see if its doable.

Then, when i know its doable, i'm gonna make the flywheel (lot of work i suppose...)
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  #50  
Old 07-09-2006, 03:14 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Coast
Posts: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by reinier
Dont know for sure what you mean, but:

-the adapter plate as it is now, will have the center of the tranny shaft at the exact same place as the center of the crankshaft.

-Dont want to modify the tranny shaft either, thats for sure. I am gonna make the custom flywheel that way, that i dont have to adjust the crank or the tranny shaft.

No more news yet, to busy with a lot of things, and now 3 weeks on a holiday!
So August or September pictures of the adapter plate, after that fit the package in the 190 engine bay, and see if its doable.

Then, when i know its doable, i'm gonna make the flywheel (lot of work i suppose...)
cool, that answers my question....I wouldn't want to mod either shaft either
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1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car
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  #51  
Old 08-07-2006, 08:37 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1
6 speed manual to merc v8

Hi
I am doing a very similar conversion to the one you are talking about. I am fitting a Lexus v8 with a nissan 6 speed out of a 350z.
Like the Merc, the Lexus v8 was never fitted with a manual box, so that has saved me time looking for a factory flywheel, they never made one. Also, the gearbox came from an engine with a dual mass flywheel, which is a lot deeper than a conventional one, meaning the spacer/adaptor and flywheel need to be deeper than you might expect. I did consider shortening the input shaft of the gearbox, but this was going to be more trouble. I got an adaptor ring and flywheel made up by a local engineering shop to my spec fairly cheap. I am using the standard flexplate under the flywheel to mount the factory ring-gear, so i can use the origonal starter position. The only thing i am unhappy about is using the standard 350z clutch which is very small for a v8 (in fact it is too small for the 350z engine it is supposed to be fitted to), but there are lots of uprated aftermarket cluches for the 350z so if I have trouble i will fit one of those.
there are several pictures on my website here

http://uk.geocities.com/jpsubsea/index.htm

I am fitting the engine/box to a W110, i think it should fit without too much trouble.
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  #52  
Old 08-09-2006, 08:08 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 58
This is just my own experiment with high performance OM602:
- Bigger auto 722.3xx used with V8's fits perfectly inside W201. Only difference is electrical connectors.
- Getrag used with 190E 16V-models is fairly heavy one and handles torque up to 500 lbs/ft. starter is on the left side. bolts right up with OM60x engines.
- BMW E39 M5 clutch assembly can easily handle torque from V8, but not the diesels.
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  #53  
Old 08-15-2006, 02:45 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Coast
Posts: 228
pardon my ignorance but what are the OM602/X series of engines?
__________________
1999 C43 AMG ~~~ 744 on black, mostly stock
1991 190e 2.6 ~~~ m117 5.6 project car
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  #54  
Old 08-15-2006, 03:01 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 256
can an m5 clutch be used in a MB??
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  #55  
Old 08-15-2006, 07:31 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYNAVY View Post
pardon my ignorance but what are the OM602/X series of engines?
that is the five cylinder diesels found in 190d 2.5 and 87 to 88 300d (or so)

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #56  
Old 08-20-2006, 06:36 PM
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Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfilipcic View Post
can an m5 clutch be used in a MB??
yes it can.
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  #57  
Old 08-20-2006, 06:38 PM
Registered User
 
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Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
that is the five cylinder diesels found in 190d 2.5 and 87 to 88 300d (or so)

tom w
that's right. the most powerful engines, except the other diesel engines swaps.

most scaring potential. wild animals.
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  #58  
Old 04-17-2008, 05:08 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 182
KICK!

My 190 v8 project is in the freezer, mostly have other things on my mind. This way it'll take 20 years to finnish it, but what the heck...


Anyway, today, I bought a brand new Sachs racing clutch of ebay.de.
Its a sinter plate, and a special .... dont know the word in english... Pressure plate?

The guy also had a secondhand 2-mass flywheel for sale, for not much. Looked at it, was very, very heavy, maybe heavier than a FULL torque converter. Thought that it is to much hassle to use it on my m119. Bolt pattern not the same, starter gear not the same, center hole not the same.

But what now? Plan was to fabricate an alu flywheel, but now im thinking that'll be TOO light.

Any ideas? Dont want a dual mass flywheel...
Clutch plate itself is 240 mm, so I wil need a flywheel thats at least 270 mm.

Any ideas? Think european, dont have acces to USA automobiles...
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  #59  
Old 04-17-2008, 05:52 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: England
Posts: 1,841
Dude there's a guy just came on www.mercedes190.co.uk with a M119 fitted 190E (not you I'm guessing!) who might have info! Hope this is useful

Russell
__________________
190E's:
2.5-16v 1990 90,000m Astral Silver
2.0E 8v 1986 107,000m Black 2nd owner
http://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall.jpghttp://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall2.jpg
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  #60  
Old 04-18-2008, 08:30 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 182
Nice to see!
Not a lot of help though, because of the automatic gearbox, and the right hand drive.
Things like the brake servo and steering box are on the other side of the car, and maybe not on the EXACT other side of the car.

But the greatest help though is probably the pics of the engine bay, and the fact that he has lowered the steering box, and only made a custom pitman arm. Thats a lot of help to me!

by the way, yesterday a went through my shop, and found a steel flywheel from a Citroen XM 2.1 turbodiesel, and that is just big enough to fit the M5 clutch.
But I need to change the flywheel completely (mount holes, surface, center hole etc.)

But i have a round, flat, steel thing thats:
-MENT to be a flywheel
-big enough
-a bit heavy

So im happy

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