I'm a great believer in synthetics (Mobil 1 for engine, ATF, diff, and occassionally Delvac 1), however after talking to fleet managers of UPS and FedEX, local public transportation company, as well as a United Airlines fleet manager for their flight simulators, and members of the PORSCHE club, all of these entities all recommend SWEPCO mineral-based lubricants ( http://www.swepcousa.com ) over *any* synthetic except in cases where you need LOW temperature pourability. These fleets even have an extended drain interval without using synthetics (upto 100,000 miles or 600 hours with a LOA program).

SWEPCO maintains that their products offer better lubricating properties than synthetics, and they are better than those in the synthetics by Royal Purple and Mobil.

By the 5-gallon pail (6-gallons for SWEPCO), SWEPCO 306 20W50 motor oil is cheaper than Delvac 1, but slightly more expensive than Royal Purple and Mobil 1.

Porsche club members have had great success, esp. with Porsche 928's that use the Mercedes 722 transmission.

I switched to SWEPCO 714 20W ATF, and *immediately* the shifts in our C36 tranny was much smoother (previous ATF oil was Mobil 1 ATF with 5K miles).

How can this be so?
My understanding is that synthetics were superior in every way, including lubricity?
If you start with high-quality "dino-based" stocks and high-quality additives, can you really beat synthetics?

Thanks in advance,

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG

Its not that one is necessarily superior to another, its just that some lubes are more suited to the characteristics of some transmissions.

For example, it is true that a lot of Porsche enthusiasts use SWEPCO (I do, in my 911). But, not in ALL Porsche transmissions. Its very popular in the pre '87 911 transmissions (the 915 transmission), but most "in the know" favor a synthetic, and not SWEPCO, in the '87 and up 911 transmissions (the G50 transmission).

I can see how synthetics might not always be better in a transmission, which requires some amount of friction to operate (automatic or manual).

Thanks Brian.

What are Porsche owners using for engine oil? I heard SWEPCO is the choice for the differential.

Have you tried Royal Purple?

:-) neil

A lot of older 911 owners that I know (myself included) still use a good quality dino oil, as opposed to synthetics. A lot (myself included!) have had problems with Mobil 1 leaking from their 911, while dino oil seems to hold in better. I use Castrol GTX 20/50 in the Porsche.

Also, a lot don't drive the cars all that much, and just change the oil every 6 months or year, and synthetic is a lot of extra cost if you're not putting a lot of miles on it, esp. when you have to drain 12 quarts in a 911 oil change.

In the BMW and MB, I use Mobil 1. That is by far the most popular synthetic among the Porsche owners that I know that use synthetic. Some use Redline, but that is really expensive (8 or 9$ per quart).

In the BMW, I use Redline synthetic in the differential. In the 911, it doesn't have a diff (its transmission is a transaxle) I use SWEPCO.

Also, in the BMW, I've used Redline ATF, and changed it and the trans filter religiously (2-3 times the factory recommended intervals), but my trans just went out, after only doing 80,000 miles. So, I don't really know what to think about Redline synthetic ATF.

I admit to having no knowledge of Swepco or its data sheets
butI find it hard to believe that any mineral oil is superior to a quality, genuine full synthetic oil, when used on a turbocharged engine,especially when used in a high temperature environment such as the USA.The complexity of modern automotive lubricating oil grows constantly to meet
engine technological development & is a comprehensive subject of its own.
I understand that Mercedes have recently stipulated that
only synthetic oil is recommended in their modern cars, in your country,I am sure there is a thorough & good technical reason for that.
Tigerfox.

My 1987 300d mercedes turbo diesel i bought recently came with a sticker on the engine block that said use only swepco oil.
i just finally went and got some swepco 306, i read on their site about 100k mile drain interval, did i read this right?
Has anyone used swepco on a 603 mercedes engine?

__________________
W123 1985 300TD naturally aspirated

I wanted to answer this part of the questions you had:

I switched to SWEPCO 714 20W ATF, and *immediately* the shifts in our C36 tranny was much smoother (previous ATF oil was Mobil 1 ATF with 5K miles).
How can this be so?
My understanding is that synthetics were superior in every way, including lubricity?
If you start with high-quality "dino-based" stocks and high-quality additives, can you really beat synthetics?

The answer to that question is yes!
Because Swepco manufactures their products from the top 1% of all base stocks and uses SPX Technology which is part of the 75 years of development, this is the main reason for the difference.
Of course you know that when you drill for oil, you get a variety of grades that come up from the ground. The top 1% is so pure that it will not break down very easily and will perform better than any other part of the stock. Of course some the of stock that comes out of the ground will be used for gasoline, some for diesel, some to make rubber or plastic products, others will be used depending on what is being manufactured. When you take the top 1% you are getting the most perfect part of the base stocks and that is what Swepco uses. This top 1% will not break down rapidlly like most of what the oil manufacturers are using and creates superior lubrication, even better than synthetics. A typical standard oil change is every 3000 miles, with Swepco I go 15,000 miles, changing my filter at recommended OEM specs.
Now the best demo I have seen was when I went into a company that was using Mobil products and put their gear lube in a vial with water and then put the Swepco 201 gear lube in another with water. I had the customer shake them both up, and the swepco gear lube seperated immediatly, the mobil, well lets just say it looked like someone puked in the vial, and when I went back 5 days later, it still looked the same with very little water seperation. This is what makes the difference, and because it lubricates and attaches to and stays on the metal, you have less heat from friction and even if you lost your oil and drove the car a few miles to get home, it would protect your engine from damage.
Also, I have a vial of 201 gear lube sitting on my desk that has had a paper clip sitting in it for well over a year, and the paperclip virtually has no rust on it whatsoever. Protection is what you need, and with Swepco, protection is what you get.
Synthetics were designed for very very cold temps, like for the space shuttle, and they work great in that environment, because that is what they were designed for, but synthetics have some big drawbacks.
I walked into a shop that had over 100 pickups they use day in and day out. I said hello to the shop supervisor and then commented that he was using synthetics in his trucks. He looked at me and said how did you know that???? Easy, there was oil all over the floor of the shop. He told me that every truck he had was leaking oil. Reason??? Because synthetics have a tendency to shrink the seals in your vehicle. Now not all seals will shrink, but the fact that I walked into a shop with over 100 pickups and was told that everyone of them was leaking oil should tell you something. I hope this helps you all understand just how good Swepco products are. If I can be of any help or answer any questions, please feel free to drop me a note!
Swepcorep@gmail.com

But I smell a spammer.

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1987 300D (230,000 mi on a #14 head-watching the temp gauge and keeping the ghost in the machine)
Raleigh NC - Home of deep fried sushi!

I use SWEPCO 714 20W ATF in my F-350, with a $5000.00 "bullet-proof" trans. The builder, John Wood, in Brawley, CA recommends to use it in all of his transmissions. He builds heavy duty transmissions for the diesel truck enthusiast.

He says that Trophy Trucks use it and their trans temps will some times soar into the 400 degree range and they have not seen a break down in the fluid.

I have 20,000 miles on my trans and that includes towing a 28' fifth wheel with a 16' trailer attached - fluid looks like new and it shifts like the day I installed it.

No spammer here, just my personal experience.

http://www.andial.com/

http://www.heatandcontrol.com/

What does Andial and Heat and Control have in common. They both use Swepco Products. Heat and Control deals with Stainless Steel. Swepco Lubricants stops broken bits and bit wear better than anything out there. Yes, I have worked as a car Mechanic and Managed Food Production. 88 Mazda 323 trans-eaters stopped moving. Pulled transmission line from radiator, pumped all fluid out and filled with Swepco and ran better than new. 95 Voyager with 50,000 miles rebuilt went out with head gasket; cylinder walls still had hash marks when head came off. Voyager rebuilt tranny never missed a beat with Swepco. 95 E420 ran fast and smooth with Swepco trans and oil. Friend's pristine $80,000 Mercedes when new sat in garage for 4 years (CA vehicle) because it barely did not pass smog. Swepco oil and Swepco fuel cleaner and a couple hundred miles on the freeway and it passed.

94 E320 head gasket oil leak
89 Acura head gasket oil leak
88 Camry head gasket oil leak
90 Mitsubishi Galant head gasket oil leak

What was in common? Mobil 1 Synthetic (gasket eaters).

Why do not Swepco advertise? Its automotive petroleum products are a byproduct and small in comparison to their main product of roofing material. As one of their Vendors says they Swepco don’t really care or bother trying to promote it. Swepcore is not a Spammer.

Lastly, a customer at my friends shop gave him a car (Ford) with a stuck lifter. Tried everything to loosen it short of a complete tear down and did not work so the customer gave up. Swepco went in and he got himself a working car. Friend the excellent Mechanic tried Swepco in his wife’s minivan and did not feel any performance changes (he is not a hotrod guy) so sort of dismissed it as a high price gimmick till the lifters.

I'm another dino oil user and a believer in Swepco lubes.

I used only Swepco gear oil in my rebuilt Porsche 915 tranny on advice of my wrench.

If you know those gearboxes, they don't live very long UNLESS you use Swepco.

It's the only stuff that makes them live.

The biggest advantage the average driver will see with synthetics is a potential increase in oil change change intervals, that's why the MFRs all changed- to meet tightening emissions and EPA requirements.

All my cars including my Benz get dino unless Mobil 1 is specified- if it's not it's Dino.

rjp

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03 540I (GAK!!)
81 280E (W123)
70 LeMans Sport with pissed off Poncho 462"
1989 Silverado Step Side (under the knife- complete restomod)

I use lorenzo's oil..it last for as long as you want.

Got Swepco in my 82 911. Next change it goes. Too slow to warm up on the street ( if it is a daily driver) but great on the track. Sean I agree something does not smell right( and yes I did check the check the bottoms of my shoes after leaving the dog park)

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92 500E Silver 66k
82 Porsche 911SC 84K
68 Cadillac ( Gone Now )
03 Suburban Z71 200K
85 300SD 217k From Original Owner ( Dad )