NEW SHOCKS FOR MY 500E - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

gsxr · #31 04-26-2003, 01:14 PM

Hey, I figured I'd resurrect this thread, and see how y'all like your shock choices a year later. From what I understand, KONI's are nice but the only reason people use them is for the adjustability; they're not necessarily any huge difference compared to non-adjustables. (Right?) On a side note, KONI only offers the red versions, they don't have the yellows (Sport) for the 124. Why, I have no idea.

And it sounds like the MB Sportline or (Bilstien) Sport dampers are actually stiffer than the 500E struts, early or late? How odd. I was thinking of going with the 500E struts but maybe I won't bother now. That will save a few bucks, as the OE 500E stuff is the most expensive of the group. And the Sport have even less travel thatn the Sportlines? I thought they were about equal! Hmmm. Decisions, decisions. Neil mentioned the Sports lack a little in the damping department, which steers me to Sportline or KONI. And only the Bilstiens and KONI have lifetime warranty, so maybe I'll end up with KONI again?

I had them on my old 300E with H&R's, and they worked well with that combo. I currently have 500E front springs with Sportline rears (no self-leveling on my car so I can't use 500E rear springs). Sportline sway bars front & rear. Handing is quite good except for the damping (the Comforts just don't cut it!) hence the need for KONI's....

Any comments would be welcome from those who have experimented a lot!

Best regards,

gsxr · #32 04-26-2003, 05:25 PM

Hey, has anyone tried these cool modified KONIs? The standard KONI only offers adjustable rebound, I believe the compression valving is fixed. (?) These appear to have adjustable compression too! Way cool:

http://www.rc-imports.com/Parts&Services/projects.htm

ke6dcj · #33 04-26-2003, 10:19 PM

Dave- if you have 500E front springs, and are running a 1 or 2-bump spring pad, I would go with EARLY 500E front struts, because you're pretty much at stock height.

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

aldedmon · #34 04-26-2003, 11:48 PM

There is such an animal. I have them "live" and in captivity on my 92 400E FR and RR. Got'em originally from RennTech. Got'em replaced from.....The Tire Rack. If you want to purchase these for your car, I can get you the info that you need to order them from the Tire Rack. I think/thought I posted the numbers already. I know i posted a thread about having them replaced and the entire ordeal I went through with KONI NA and the tire rack. Even though the Tire Rack tech may swear up and down that they do not have/carry them......They do... or at least they did as of 01/01/03 ~ the time I was getting mine replacements free of charge courtesy of the KONI NA.

gsxr · #35 04-26-2003, 11:55 PM

Really! Wow... even KONI's website doesn't say they exist! Two questions. One, do you have part numbers; and two, how do you like them compared to whatever else you've used?

aldedmon · #36 04-27-2003, 12:25 AM

Yes, I think I have the Invoice or if all else fails, I can simply jack up one side of the car and check out the strus to get the numbers. I originally put the KONI's on the car when I still had the OE springs. The ride response was instantly improved. No major ride comfort difference, just maybe 1 to 1 1/2 less rebounds when you hit a dip or something. Later I installed Eibachs. Whoa Nellie!! No more floatiness, just smooth confident, comfortable chicane taking sweetness!

. Car rides like a dream. The adjustability of KONI's in my opinion make them "the only way to go".

Jim's500E · #37 04-28-2003, 08:04 AM

I have the Koni yellows on my 500E with H&R springs...just installed them a couple of weeks ago. Got them from TireRack also, like $320 for both fronts. I like so far, set on softest setting for a few 1000 miles before I adjust them. Makes a noticeable difference however one of my fronts was completely shot so any shock would have been an improvement at this point.

So far so good...I give them 2 thumbs up.

gsxr · #38 04-28-2003, 10:29 AM

On a side note, check out this tidbit about the stock 500E's internal rebound limiting springs. I hope Vince doesn't mind me copying this to the forum:

> I read the thread on the 500E suspension and there was
> one thing I found to be very interesting. There are
> extension limiting springs in the 500E struts. I have
> tried a demo of this concept on an Eibach car at the
> track. They had some of their pro-dampers setup with
> and without the springs and the difference was amazing.
> The engineer (an Aussie touring car tuner who was
> consulting for Eibach at the time) told me that you can
> virtually make the car completely flat while cornering
> with them in the front struts and have NO understeer
> (unlike adding just a bigger front sway bar). He
> showed me that you can even remove the front sway bar
> when this is done correctly and the car will handle the
> same. The upside is that you are not using a big sway
> bar with it's inherent disadvantages (connecting the
> independent suspension and making it, well... less
> independent). My E30 with big bars would carry the
> inside front wheel all the time on the track. Four
> wheels stick better than three, so it's not good to
> unweight the inside wheel too much. The rub on the
> limiting springs is that the ride height has to be
> preset and not altered after the strut extension
> limiting springs are installed for a given application.
> If not, they stop working as they are no longer in play
> when you lower the car. The 500E struts probably only
> work properly, in this regard, at stock ride height.
>
> Vince

Michael · #39 04-28-2003, 11:04 AM

Good stuff-thanks for sharing

Now,I can sorta grasp how the extension-limiting "springs" (elastomers, no? Like a Mountain Bike fork?) work, but they appear to be only on the front struts (per the "Intro to Service" publication) so can't help control the rear of the car; however, I'd think the SLS is taking care of that, and indeed the back half of my car feels better controlled than the front under severe duty....it's the front that's moving around a bit more on its suspension. FWIW my front struts are the later model OE ones, maybe a bit over 2 years old. Stock springs & sway bar.

Jim/anyone, what exactly adjustable on the Konis, both rebound and compression damping?

Now, what these cars really need is less dive under braking! In that regard, I'd think the Konis would be a huge improvement since you're upping the damping and thereby getting less pitch to begin with. Plus, if you have firmer damping up front won't there be less of a need, if any, for the extension-limiting device?

Based on what I'm hearing, I may do the Konis myself. But for a pure street car/highway star, I think the factory figured it all out for us

Glen · #40 04-28-2003, 12:12 PM

Just a quick clarification. Stock rear 500E hydro-struts definitely have the extension limiting springs. I have a brand new set waiting to go in

gsxr · #41 04-28-2003, 12:58 PM

Glen is right, the 500E has the internal springs on all 4 corners for stock dampers. Stock KONI's have adjustable rebound only, I believe. If you want adjustable compression as well, you need to contact RC Imports, at the URL I posted earlier in the thread. They have custom-modified KONIs with adjustable rebound (stock adjuster) and compression (the extra adjusting screw visible in the photo).

As to contolling front end dive, I'm not sure how much the dampers will help. You may need stiffer springs to achieve that. I'm still tossed up between the Sportlines (which Neil likes), the stock early 500E struts (which might be best for non-track use), and the KONI's. Someone noted that the KONI's seem to have a more crude damping curve than the Bilstiens (and possibly OE), as seen on a shock dyno. But we could be picking nits at this level...

aldedmon · #42 04-28-2003, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Jim/anyone, what exactly adjustable on the Konis, both rebound and compression damping?

YES, Both.
The "Dive" of the 500E is probably due to the loading up/ compressing of the front springs due to the "softer" struts and also the "softer" springs themselves. Having 2 cars , the Koni's on the 400E and and the bone stock Factory spec'd 500E , I will tell you that there is a definite advantage to the 400E in terms of performance during a panic stop(Obviously not under repeated use, but for just one stop).I never really remember the car ever having a squatting/diving problem. Personally I like and wish the MB stopped like my 530i V8 BMW. When you stand hard on the brakes it feels as though the entire car squats down. But the 400 is no slouch. With the Eibachs and the KONI's it has really predictable characteristics and since the spring are shorter thna factory and as such have less "give" to them, there are more resistant to "dive". Changing the Springs and Front struts on the 500E to KONI and Eibach or H&R would definitely improve the cars performance and take some of the "floatiness" out of the car. Meanwhile, I'll leave the "lapping" to the 400E and street cruise the 500E

ke6dcj · #43 04-28-2003, 01:20 PM

500E springs are definitely SOFTER than SportLine springs.

At one time, I had SportLine struts and SportLine springs in the front. VERY STIFF. No squat. Great handler on the track, to stiff for everyday driving.

Then I switched to 500E springs, but kept the SportLine struts. Some squat.

Switched to 500E struts (already 500E springs), now a softer ride, but under extreme use, the nose will dive then hit the limiter springs in the front struts and stiffen up. I can deal with this for everyday driving.

BTW: our 1993 500E is now running SportLine struts. Less soft than stock. However, when pushed, it does dive more than with the 500E front struts. I'll either install 500E (early) front struts, or install the SportLine springs.

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

gsxr · #44 04-28-2003, 01:43 PM

Guys, if you read the info on KONI's website, it strongly implies that only rebound damping is adjustable. It mentions that in the "Adjustment" info, and also looks that way on this graph of damping rates for red & yellow:

http://www.koni.com/_cars/_general_info/technology/damping_forces.html

http://www.koni.com/_cars/_general_info/install_manuals/adjustment.html

http://www.koni.com/_cars/_general_info/_menue.html

Also note that the 500E extension limiting springs have no effect on compression. Compression is limited by the foam stop buffer on the strut shaft. The extension limiting springs may affect rebound somewhat. They won't reduce dive. If you study the diagram in the 400E/500E Intro manual, you can see that they affect the extension of the strut only. Click here too see the diagram.

aldedmon · #45 04-28-2003, 01:46 PM

I guess in my case, the springs counter the compression factor and the shocks/struts the rebound.

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