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  #1  
Old 09-28-2007, 08:53 AM
LantanaML320's Avatar
2004 Crossfire
 
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Location: Lantana, Texas
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Will this work or am I asking for huge trouble

Hello,

I don't have an ML320 as my name would suggest. About a month ago I traded it for a 2004 Chrysler Crossfire. Just in case some of you might not know there are no Chrysler parts on the car other than a couple of badges. It is built by Karrman in the same plant that produces SLK's. As soon as you open the hood on a Crossfire you are staring at an SLK320. I have been looking at how to make this car go as fast as is looks. One option is a Rotrex supercharger like the guy on this forum did and the other is putting a V8 into it. Startech/Renntech put 6.1 V8's in and sell them for stupid money. I am an old drag racer and car builder and would like to attempt this my self.

If I go with the V8 I know I can bolt a 3 valve V8 right in where the 3 valve V6 was, but I would have to use C43 exhaust manifolds and radiator and fan. Becasue of this I am favoring a C43 engine.

I know I can bolt it in. The big question is can I get it to run? I am assuming That I could use the C43 engine harness and computer. Can anyone tell me if this is correct? After reading about the V12 SL, I am a little worried. At least with this swap I am dealing with the same family of engines and the same aprox. years. Any experts out there that can give some advice?

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  #2  
Old 09-28-2007, 10:09 AM
RBYCC's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LantanaML320 View Post
Hello,

I don't have an ML320 as my name would suggest. About a month ago I traded it for a 2004 Chrysler Crossfire. Just in case some of you might not know there are no Chrysler parts on the car other than a couple of badges. It is built by Karrman in the same plant that produces SLK's. As soon as you open the hood on a Crossfire you are staring at an SLK320. I have been looking at how to make this car go as fast as is looks. One option is a Rotrex supercharger like the guy on this forum did and the other is putting a V8 into it. Startech/Renntech put 6.1 V8's in and sell them for stupid money. I am an old drag racer and car builder and would like to attempt this my self.

If I go with the V8 I know I can bolt a 3 valve V8 right in where the 3 valve V6 was, but I would have to use C43 exhaust manifolds and radiator and fan. Becasue of this I am favoring a C43 engine.

I know I can bolt it in. The big question is can I get it to run? I am assuming That I could use the C43 engine harness and computer. Can anyone tell me if this is correct? After reading about the V12 SL, I am a little worried. At least with this swap I am dealing with the same family of engines and the same aprox. years. Any experts out there that can give some advice?
Forced induction ( super or turbo ) is less expensive and will put out more power then installing the 4.3 AMG engine from the W202 C43 !!!
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  #3  
Old 09-28-2007, 12:47 PM
LantanaML320's Avatar
2004 Crossfire
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lantana, Texas
Posts: 27
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Originally Posted by RBYCC View Post
Forced induction ( super or turbo ) is less expensive and will put out more power then installing the 4.3 AMG engine from the W202 C43 !!!
You are right in that it would be a little cheaper but only if I do it myself. Pre-made kits will cost more. I have sent a PM to the guy who put a Rotrex supercharger on his 320 straight six asking for advice but did not hear back from. Bascially any three valve V8 will bolt in as long as I use the C43 exhaust manifolds. I was more interested in hearing from someone that is familiar with the computers and compatibility. Turbo's and centrifigal superchargers lack the torque of the V8 bleow 3,000 RPM. The V8 would also sound better.
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  #4  
Old 09-28-2007, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by LantanaML320 View Post
You are right in that it would be a little cheaper but only if I do it myself. Pre-made kits will cost more. I have sent a PM to the guy who put a Rotrex supercharger on his 320 straight six asking for advice but did not hear back from. Bascially any three valve V8 will bolt in as long as I use the C43 exhaust manifolds. I was more interested in hearing from someone that is familiar with the computers and compatibility. Turbo's and centrifigal superchargers lack the torque of the V8 bleow 3,000 RPM. The V8 would also sound better.
Really now....

I own a 99 C43 with about 43K miles.
I just twin turbo'd ( TurboTechnics Kit, 2 Garrett T2's, .48bar/7 lb boost ) a 1988 300CE M103-12V I6 ( bought new May of 1988, 63K miles )
I own a 2003 G55.
I'm extremely familiar with the torque characteristics of the NA AMG V8's.

The 3.0L M103-12V TT produces more torque coming in around 1500 RPM then the C43, or even a 500E.

Swapping engines and trying to make the electronics fully compatible will be very costly and produce a vehicle with a stock 4.3 AMG engine that will fall short of the performance mark.

Remember you're looking at 1998-2000 engine managment which is not as fully integrated to the vehicle as your 2004 is....

If you really want to do it, then why not a later model 5.5L AMG from a C55 or even an E55 ?

Last edited by RBYCC; 09-28-2007 at 02:49 PM.
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  #5  
Old 09-28-2007, 05:52 PM
LantanaML320's Avatar
2004 Crossfire
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lantana, Texas
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Originally Posted by RBYCC View Post
Really now....

I own a 99 C43 with about 43K miles.
I just twin turbo'd ( TurboTechnics Kit, 2 Garrett T2's, .48bar/7 lb boost ) a 1988 300CE M103-12V I6 ( bought new May of 1988, 63K miles )
I own a 2003 G55.
I'm extremely familiar with the torque characteristics of the NA AMG V8's.

The 3.0L M103-12V TT produces more torque coming in around 1500 RPM then the C43, or even a 500E.

Swapping engines and trying to make the electronics fully compatible will be very costly and produce a vehicle with a stock 4.3 AMG engine that will fall short of the performance mark.

Remember you're looking at 1998-2000 engine managment which is not as fully integrated to the vehicle as your 2004 is....

If you really want to do it, then why not a later model 5.5L AMG from a C55 or even an E55 ?
I am looking for at 5.0's and 5.5's, my main point is that I will need the exhaust manifold from the C43. These are the manifolds that tuck on tight and look like they wrap around the back of the head towards the bellhousing. Any other V8's come with these manifolds? I was thinking I would be better off staying with an engine/harness/computer from something closer to 2004, just not sure what the differences are and if I really need to. What I really need is someone familiar with MB computers to chime in.
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  #6  
Old 09-29-2007, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by LantanaML320 View Post
I am looking for at 5.0's and 5.5's, my main point is that I will need the exhaust manifold from the C43. These are the manifolds that tuck on tight and look like they wrap around the back of the head towards the bellhousing. Any other V8's come with these manifolds? I was thinking I would be better off staying with an engine/harness/computer from something closer to 2004, just not sure what the differences are and if I really need to. What I really need is someone familiar with MB computers to chime in.
Try not to jump ahead with your concern about compatibility of electronics.
Focus on the basics of what performance return you will get for your time, money and effort.

You're looking at 5.0 - 5.5's, immediately negate the 5.0
The M113 5.4/5.5 NA AMG produces from 342HP-367HP and 382-391LB-FT torque depending on the chassis it's installed in.

The stock SLK32 which is the AMG variiant of your Crossfire produces 348HP / 331LB-FT torque.

You have a Crossfire which will never be worth anywhere near what it's donor vehicle the MB SLK is valued at.

Far simpler if you want to keep your Crossfire to build your 320 to the same spec as the supercharged AMG 32.
Tweak a bit and you produce matching or better performance then a costly and problematic V8 conversion which will diminish the value of your vehicle.

Not sure of your experience with Mercedes, but much thought is given to the engine-chassis match.
I wouldn't think of putting a V8 in a stock or AMG modded chassis that wasn't designed for the V8.

In the long run, you'd be better off trading for a SLK32 which at some point will be an appreciating asset as it has legitimacy and desirability to those who appreciate AMG cars !

Good luck !!
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  #7  
Old 09-29-2007, 02:14 PM
LantanaML320's Avatar
2004 Crossfire
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lantana, Texas
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBYCC View Post
Try not to jump ahead with your concern about compatibility of electronics.
Focus on the basics of what performance return you will get for your time, money and effort.

You're looking at 5.0 - 5.5's, immediately negate the 5.0
The M113 5.4/5.5 NA AMG produces from 342HP-367HP and 382-391LB-FT torque depending on the chassis it's installed in.

The stock SLK32 which is the AMG variiant of your Crossfire produces 348HP / 331LB-FT torque.

You have a Crossfire which will never be worth anywhere near what it's donor vehicle the MB SLK is valued at.

Far simpler if you want to keep your Crossfire to build your 320 to the same spec as the supercharged AMG 32.
Tweak a bit and you produce matching or better performance then a costly and problematic V8 conversion which will diminish the value of your vehicle.

Not sure of your experience with Mercedes, but much thought is given to the engine-chassis match.
I wouldn't think of putting a V8 in a stock or AMG modded chassis that wasn't designed for the V8.

In the long run, you'd be better off trading for a SLK32 which at some point will be an appreciating asset as it has legitimacy and desirability to those who appreciate AMG cars !

Good luck !!
HUH?

I already know what to expect from the V8. My n/a 3.2 doesn't cut it. I can get SRT-6 engnes for about $3K (until the mercedes guys find out it is exactly the same SLK32 AMG engine that goes for way more). I have no interest in an SLK or AMG32 eninge. What I am interested here is hearing from someone that knows something about the Mercedes ECM's.

Last edited by LantanaML320; 09-30-2007 at 01:35 AM.
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  #8  
Old 09-30-2007, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by LantanaML320 View Post
HUH?

I already know what to expect from the V8. My n/a 3.2 doesn't cut it. I can get SRT-6 engnes for about $3K (until the mercedes guys find out it is exactly the same SLK32 AMG engine that goes for way more). I have no interest in an SLK or AMG32 eninge. What I am interested here is hearing from someone that knows something about the Mercedes ECM's.
Good luck...
If you know what the V8's will offer then forge ahead.
Merc ECU's aren't as generic and easily "tuned" as the GM's are ( hand held tuner.)
They tend to be chassis matched.

Great price on the SRT-6 @ $3000.00 add a Renntech ECU and a pulley ( $3295.00) and you get 394HP and 387 lb-ft torque.
For $6295.00 you get power numbers that a 5.4L AMG won't put out without additional tuning...

Power is power regardless of how many cylinders makes it.... !!
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  #9  
Old 09-30-2007, 11:11 AM
LantanaML320's Avatar
2004 Crossfire
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lantana, Texas
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBYCC View Post
Good luck...
If you know what the V8's will offer then forge ahead.
Merc ECU's aren't as generic and easily "tuned" as the GM's are ( hand held tuner.)
They tend to be chassis matched.

Great price on the SRT-6 @ $3000.00 add a Renntech ECU and a pulley ( $3295.00) and you get 394HP and 387 lb-ft torque.
For $6295.00 you get power numbers that a 5.4L AMG won't put out without additional tuning...

Power is power regardless of how many cylinders makes it.... !!
For me power is sight sound and feel. For me, The V6 ony hits one of these. The V8 also gives me greater potential latter on. Renntech/Startech has put V8's into Crossfires and then sells them for over $150,000. I am sure the chassis can handle the additional 130 pounds. I have done these kind of mods myself for years. I'm just not that familiar with the Mercedes ECM's which is why I started this thread. Does look like anyone on here knows the answer. I am currious, does what does the Rentech ECU cost? Must be a rediculous price just like their V8 Crossfire.

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